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Link between Packer and Autobiography of Jack the Ripper

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  • Link between Packer and Autobiography of Jack the Ripper

    I found something interesting today while researching the Elizabeth Stride case about the fruiterer, Matthew Packer and a possible link to the likely fictional book 'Autobiography of Jack the Ripper.'

    For those of you who might not know about the book, it was published from a manuscript found in the possession of Sydney George Hulme Beaman. The manuscript was supposedly written by the 'real' murderer, a man calling himself James Carnac, which is actually a false name in itself. The manuscript is about his own life before, during and after the murders and although it's likely to be fiction the macabre humour and style of writing makes me think that it is unusual and could maybe be more than meets the eye.

    Anyways, during the book he describes an unusual incident happening after the murder of Liz Stride. He talks about buying grapes from a fruitierer and bumping into him on one of the days after the murder. The fruiterer, likely Matthew Packer, grew suspicious of Carnac and followed him until he lost sight of him and sent a boy to continue following him. He, Carnac, then says he quickly jumped aboard a tram and made his escape.

    This leads me back to an article I found today in the South Wales Echo (October 31, 1888)

    Here is the passage;

    'A statement by Matthew Packer, who kept a fruit stall near the scene of the Berner Street murder, and from whom the murderer is believed to have bought some grapes for the unfortunate woman Elisabeth Stride, shortly before her murder. He says that he saw the man last Saturday night, standing near his fruit stall and looking at him in a menacing manner. Parker states that, being alarmed, he asked a shoeblack standing near to watch the man, who, however then ran off and jumped upon a passing tramcar, and Packed could not leave his stall to follow him.

    This newspaper statement by Packer looks similar to that described in the late 1920's by Carnac, the alleged murderer.

    What do you think about this link. Was this newspaper account widely available for anybody to find or was it relatively obscure?

    Thanks, Sleuth.

  • #2
    Quite widely reported I think. It was in the Echo on 31 October 1888, in a slightly different form, in Lloyds Weekly News the following Sunday and in the Illustrated Police News a week after that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting. A person supposedly writing in the 1920s might very well have been alive in 1888, about thirty years earlier. So that doesn't point to the possibility of a more modern-day hoax, I would say, as many stories about the Ripper were printed around the world in a number of newspapers.

      I don't remember too much about the "Autobiography of Jack the Ripper"-- when was it first published? The 1980s or earlier / later?
      Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
      ---------------
      Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
      ---------------

      Comment


      • #4
        Wasn't Carnac a one-legged man? Packer said the man "ran off and jumped upon a passing tramcar". No mention of an awkward walk or a man with one leg.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by David Orsam View Post
          Quite widely reported I think. It was in the Echo on 31 October 1888, in a slightly different form, in Lloyds Weekly News the following Sunday and in the Illustrated Police News a week after that.
          Funny that name "Carnac". It sounds like a place in France where there is a "Stonehenge-like" structure. It also reminds me of a character, "Dr. Carnacki" (? - spelling) who was a detective who used occult methods in his investigations. The stories about him were popular in the early 20th Century.
          It is also (if spelled with a "K" instead of a "C") it was an ancient Egyptian city that is now a set of ruined temples.

          Jeff

          [Of course, to people of my post 1954 generation, it ("Carnac") is familiar as the name Johnny Carson used in a continuous segment on his "Tonight Show" as a seer called "Carnac the Magnificent" (complete with cape and humongous turban), when he supposedly read the solutions to questions in sealed envelopes that were kept under a mayonnaise jar on the back porch of a home by Funk & Wagnalls. His sidekick, Ed MacMahon, would say, "NO ONE" (startling Carson) has seen these contents since the envelopes were sealed. Carson would then go through the envelopes one by one, recite his answers while holding the envelopes to his turban, then open the envelope and tell everyone the quetion - which of course was a punchline joke of the answer. MacMahon would occasionally get on Carnak's nerves by repeating the answer although not asked to do so, and when they reached the final envelope, he'd say - with all seriosness - "This, is the last envelope", and the audience would burst into applause. Carson/"Carnak" would then look at the audience and say some appropriate mystic sounding curse to them for their lack of due respect for him! Then he'd do the last envelope. My apologies for the unrelated footnote.]

          Comment


          • #6
            Perhaps he lost his leg after this incident occurred? And if Carnac was a fake name, can we be certain he even existed in reality? (Uh-oh, I'm beginning to sound "post-modernist", lol...)
            Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
            ---------------
            Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
            ---------------

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
              Interesting. A person supposedly writing in the 1920s might very well have been alive in 1888, about thirty years earlier. So that doesn't point to the possibility of a more modern-day hoax, I would say, as many stories about the Ripper were printed around the world in a number of newspapers.

              I don't remember too much about the "Autobiography of Jack the Ripper"-- when was it first published? The 1980s or earlier / later?
              Hi Pat

              mid 2000's actually.

              actually enjoyable as a novel.

              the audio book was very good.

              steve

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jerryd View Post
                Wasn't Carnac a one-legged man? Packer said the man "ran off and jumped upon a passing tramcar". No mention of an awkward walk or a man with one leg.
                yes but the accident causing the lose of the leg happened the day after Kelly as he rushed to buy the papers to read of his handwork.

                steve

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks, Steve.

                  And Jeff, you're an unrepentant Baby-Boomer, like me!
                  Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                  ---------------
                  Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                  ---------------

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Elamarna View Post
                    yes but the accident causing the lose of the leg happened the day after Kelly as he rushed to buy the papers to read of his handwork.

                    steve
                    You're pulling my leg, aren't you Steve?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jerryd View Post
                      You're pulling my leg, aren't you Steve?
                      No Jerry, that is it.

                      according to the book, that is why the killings stopped, he was run over by a wagon or carriage can't remember which as he went to get the paper.

                      before that he is in the room with Kelly who asks him what is name is, and says as long as its not "jack" and he replies , "actually it is" she cries out,as he kills her.

                      steve

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                      • #12
                        Sorry Steve,

                        My post was intended as a joke. Guess I've lost my touch.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
                          Thanks, Steve.

                          And Jeff, you're an unrepentant Baby-Boomer, like me!
                          Damn Right!! And Carson was superior to Leno, Letterman, Fallon, Colbert, ALL OF THEM. They'll never, unfortunately, be another one.

                          Jeff

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think there might be a reason why the novel was supposedly found in manuscript form! But, hey, explains why Kelly was the last victim...
                            Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                            ---------------
                            Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                            ---------------

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jerryd View Post
                              Sorry Steve,

                              My post was intended as a joke. Guess I've lost my touch.
                              Hi Jerry

                              i realised after i posted, but was useful info for others so left it on.

                              not lost your touch

                              steve

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