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I re-discovered some interesting new information yesterday while looking again at the report of the Kelly murder in the London Evening Post of 9 November 1888. It was in their "Special Edition" which was probably printed or sold at about 7pm. (I transcribed and posted the entire report in a thread "Kelly murder in the Evening Post" in the Victims/MJK section on 15.02.15 - http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=8685).
At the end of its report about the Kelly murder, which included the Press Association story about Morris Lewis having seen "the woman leave the house and return with some milk", the following paragraph appears:
"The most extraordinary rumours are about as to the hour when the woman was last seen alive. One man has informed our representative that he was in the court at eight o’clock this morning when he saw Kelly go out for the purpose of fetching some milk. Two women aver that they saw her in a public-house, drinking with a man. This was between ten and half-past, but the persons residing in the public house state that they have no recollection of her, and the point is rendered the more difficult through Kelly not being generally known."
So here we have independent confirmation from an Evening Post reporter (not the Press Association rep) that he has personally spoken to a man - presumably Lewis - who said that he saw Kelly go out for some milk at 8am. Then he has also spoken to, or been told about, "Two women" who saw Kelly drinking in a public house with a man between 10 and 10.30 am.
We can then see that the reporter has spoken to people living in (presumably) the Britannia who told him they had no recollection of Kelly but he makes the point that identification was difficult because Kelly was not generally known. This might, perhaps, be the source of the information in Paul Begg's 2004 book cited by John G in the other thread in which the denial was said to have been in rather stronger terms.
Going back then to my previous post on the subject, why did the third press association report of 9 November, which included the Lewis sighting, not refer to the name of the victim? If Lewis had seen Kelly and told the reporter this, why was that information not included in the report?
Funnily enough, before seeing the Evening Post report yesterday, it had already occurred to me that there was no way that the Press Association would name the victim as Mary Jane Kelly on the basis of what its reporter had been told by a passing tailor. If they had got it wrong, and MJK was still very much alive, it would have been hugely embarrassing for that agency. So, even if Lewis had said, "Yes, I've been told it's Mary Jane Kelly who was murdered and I saw her going for milk at 8am", the P.A. reporter would probably not have included the name in his report out of an abundance of caution until he received official confirmation of the victim's name.
This would explain a couple of things. Firstly it would explain how the P.A. report was able to include the information in his third report that the victim was a 21 year old woman of genteel appearance who had recently separated from a man she was living.
It would also explain how Lewis was able to tell the LWN reporter that, at about 11am on Friday morning, he "heard that Kelly had been found in her room murdered." Initially I thought this might be him doing some historical revisionism and that he had initially only heard about the murder, finding out later that it was Kelly. But, in the period before the police arrived, no doubt the word did spread among local residents - from either McCarthy or Bowyer - that it was Kelly who had been found dead.
What are the consequences of all this?
Firstly, it makes it very odd that Lewis did not, apparently, mention his 8am sighting, for which he must have been reasonably famous, when he spoke to the LWN reporter. Even odder - and certainly suspicious - is that he did not mention the 10am sighting when he spoke to the Evening Post representative. For that reason, it does appear that he had adopted someone else's story when he spoke to the LWN reporter.
However, I'm not sure it changes very much. We now have confirmation that "two women" claimed to have seen Kelly drinking in a public house with a man at around 10am. Surely these women were the source for the story in the P.A. report and in the Globe about that. Neither of them can be Mrs Maxwell who never claimed to have seen Kelly drinking with anyone.
It should be noted, however, that Lewis is our only source that Kelly had been seen drinking in the Britannia as opposed to any other local public house.
With the women being unidentified it might explain why the police never found them. If they were prostitutes they might not have wanted to come forward or reveal their names to the press. Perhaps this is why Lewis told their story for them (???).
At the end of its report about the Kelly murder, which included the Press Association story about Morris Lewis having seen "the woman leave the house and return with some milk", the following paragraph appears:
"The most extraordinary rumours are about as to the hour when the woman was last seen alive. One man has informed our representative that he was in the court at eight o’clock this morning when he saw Kelly go out for the purpose of fetching some milk. Two women aver that they saw her in a public-house, drinking with a man. This was between ten and half-past, but the persons residing in the public house state that they have no recollection of her, and the point is rendered the more difficult through Kelly not being generally known."
So here we have independent confirmation from an Evening Post reporter (not the Press Association rep) that he has personally spoken to a man - presumably Lewis - who said that he saw Kelly go out for some milk at 8am. Then he has also spoken to, or been told about, "Two women" who saw Kelly drinking in a public house with a man between 10 and 10.30 am.
We can then see that the reporter has spoken to people living in (presumably) the Britannia who told him they had no recollection of Kelly but he makes the point that identification was difficult because Kelly was not generally known. This might, perhaps, be the source of the information in Paul Begg's 2004 book cited by John G in the other thread in which the denial was said to have been in rather stronger terms.
Going back then to my previous post on the subject, why did the third press association report of 9 November, which included the Lewis sighting, not refer to the name of the victim? If Lewis had seen Kelly and told the reporter this, why was that information not included in the report?
Funnily enough, before seeing the Evening Post report yesterday, it had already occurred to me that there was no way that the Press Association would name the victim as Mary Jane Kelly on the basis of what its reporter had been told by a passing tailor. If they had got it wrong, and MJK was still very much alive, it would have been hugely embarrassing for that agency. So, even if Lewis had said, "Yes, I've been told it's Mary Jane Kelly who was murdered and I saw her going for milk at 8am", the P.A. reporter would probably not have included the name in his report out of an abundance of caution until he received official confirmation of the victim's name.
This would explain a couple of things. Firstly it would explain how the P.A. report was able to include the information in his third report that the victim was a 21 year old woman of genteel appearance who had recently separated from a man she was living.
It would also explain how Lewis was able to tell the LWN reporter that, at about 11am on Friday morning, he "heard that Kelly had been found in her room murdered." Initially I thought this might be him doing some historical revisionism and that he had initially only heard about the murder, finding out later that it was Kelly. But, in the period before the police arrived, no doubt the word did spread among local residents - from either McCarthy or Bowyer - that it was Kelly who had been found dead.
What are the consequences of all this?
Firstly, it makes it very odd that Lewis did not, apparently, mention his 8am sighting, for which he must have been reasonably famous, when he spoke to the LWN reporter. Even odder - and certainly suspicious - is that he did not mention the 10am sighting when he spoke to the Evening Post representative. For that reason, it does appear that he had adopted someone else's story when he spoke to the LWN reporter.
However, I'm not sure it changes very much. We now have confirmation that "two women" claimed to have seen Kelly drinking in a public house with a man at around 10am. Surely these women were the source for the story in the P.A. report and in the Globe about that. Neither of them can be Mrs Maxwell who never claimed to have seen Kelly drinking with anyone.
It should be noted, however, that Lewis is our only source that Kelly had been seen drinking in the Britannia as opposed to any other local public house.
With the women being unidentified it might explain why the police never found them. If they were prostitutes they might not have wanted to come forward or reveal their names to the press. Perhaps this is why Lewis told their story for them (???).
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