Bowyer´s inquest testimony

[JadenCollins]

No, he won´t listen. Oh, how terrible, considering you have told him time and time again.

Well, it is you Steve and your friend David against Pierre, I guess.

But what can you do with Pierre, since he does not understand a word you say? And oh, he makes false pictures here as well, yes, Pierre must be a real trickster, who is just trying to fool and manipulate you. A troll, isn´t he?

are you really talking in the third person?
I mean only wackos do...

[Elamarna]

From what figures exactly?

"you are saying the bed is 9ft long."

- are you quoting me? You are lying. I have not used those words. Why are you lying Steve? Just for the fun of it? Or what is your problem?

You have told us the room is 2.85 meters wide.

your new diagram shows the bed taking up the whole width. that gives a width for room of 9foot 3 inches, allowing for the bricks on the side wall that is a bed of nearly 9 foot.

I am not lying that length of bed is based on your own figures.

please withdraw you accusation of lying.

[Elamarna]

Don´t tell me to find things Steve. Instead, forget about the 1.5 hours. If you are not a pitbull, which I believe you aren´t.

No way, you quoted 1.5 hours as the time taken by the killer, you then said you would dig out the source for this?

so i will not forget it.
don't quote data you cannot backup. that is not scientific as you well know.

[Elamarna]

No, he won´t listen. Oh, how terrible, considering you have told him time and time again.

Well, it is you Steve and your friend David against Pierre, I guess.

But what can you do with Pierre, since he does not understand a word you say? And oh, he makes false pictures here as well, yes, Pierre must be a real trickster, who is just trying to fool and manipulate you. A troll, isn´t he?

Pierre,
to quote yourself in the third person is not considered the normal thing to do.
you do know that i hope?

[Elamarna]

One thing, Steve. I don´t care if you "change your mind". I have no interest whatsoever in changing your mind. The only thing that means anything to me is science. What some individuals are thinking means nothing to me.

I enjoyed discussing with you since I thought you were a bit serious. But now I see you are not. So I guess there´s nothing left to be said to you.

I won´t out you on the ignore list. I don´t like using that function. I just had to do it in David´s case since he is stalking me on the forum. Yes, that is the correct expression. His only interest is to destroy anything I write.

After almost every post I write I see the name David Orsam.

sorry, I find nothing you say scientific.
I am not the person who is not serious my friend

out me on the ignore list? out me as if its some sort of disgrace.

i will l continue to post questions you don't want to answer.
actually makes no difference as you refuse to answer any direct question.

[Elamarna]

Hey Steve, you join me on the "naughty list". Congratulations!

Clearly you are being far too effective and Pierre doesn't like it.

David,

I have been out for the evening and come back to this abuse.

I have not lied, if he does not withdraw the accusation should i report him to admin?
does anyone here have an opinion on this, or should i just ignore him?

David, i am a bad boy.

[Elamarna]

I wish to ask you a question Pierre.

Mary Kelly was 5ft 7inches tall, in MJK1 her legs are not outstretched, they are actually pulled up.

How long would you say she is in that picture from head to toe? I would suggest no more than 5foot 2 inches. do you disagree?

The room according to your calculations is 2.85 m wide, that is 9ft 3inches.
Allowing 4 inches for the brick wall that gives 8 foot 11 inches for the room
your diagram shows the bed filling the entire width of the room.

Are you suggesting that there is a further 3foot 8 or 9 inches at the bottom of the bed we cannot see?

If the bed fills the entire width of the room, does it not barricade not only the main door, but also the door in the wall?

[Pierre]

I wish to ask you a question Pierre.

Mary Kelly was 5ft 7inches tall, in MJK1 her legs are not outstretched, they are actually pulled up.

How long would you say she is in that picture from head to toe? I would suggest no more than 5foot 2 inches. do you disagree?

The room according to your calculations is 2.85 m wide, that is 9ft 3inches.
Allowing 4 inches for the brick wall that gives 8 foot 11 inches for the room
your diagram shows the bed filling the entire width of the room.

Are you suggesting that there is a further 3foot 8 or 9 inches at the bottom of the bed we cannot see?

If the bed fills the entire width of the room, does it not barricade not only the main door, but also the door in the wall?

OK. I use centimeters.

The bed is 3,17 centimeters if it was 2 meters.

The width of the bed could be, like this, don´t know, about 1,30.

The door between 26 and 13 opens into 26.

[David Orsam]

David,

I have been out for the evening and come back to this abuse.

I have not lied, if he does not withdraw the accusation should i report him to admin?
does anyone here have an opinion on this, or should i just ignore him?

David, i am a bad boy.

He's just answered your question, so you clearly haven't been trying hard enough!

[David Orsam]

The bed is 3,17 centimeters if it was 2 meters.

Is he now saying that Mary's bed would have been a little over 6.5 feet in length?

Mine is only about 6ft (and I'm 6ft tall!)

I love the way he's now posted three separate diagrams to try and get the barricading bed close against the partition but ends up failing miserably.

[Pcdunn]

I think a meter and a half (at most) would be more believable, Pierre.

[Pierre]

I think a meter and a half (at most) would be more believable, Pierre.

Well, if you say so. We all have to guess. Your guess is as good as anyone´s.

[David Orsam]

We all have to guess. Your guess is as good as anyone´s.

But the guess has to be realistic. So an unrealistic guess is not going to be as good as a realistic one.

[David Orsam]

Leaving aside the size of the bed, Pierre has messed up his diagram in any case.

In his evidence at the inquest, Dr Phillips was describing what he saw in the room after the door was opened.

In Pierre's diagram the door is shut and barricaded by the furniture.

Once the door was opened, the position of furniture would have shifted.

Ironically, the bed would have ended up closer to the partition.

But this doesn't help Pierre because it means that MJK3 could not show the furniture barricading the door, unless the police moved it.

[Elamarna]

Pierre,

pleased you answered,
I do have a few questions to ask with regards to your plan

Your first plan, the white one, showed a large gap between the head of the bed and the wall, you have decided this plan was wrong. Fair enough.

You then provided a plan which appeared to show the bed extending the full width of the room.

I asked you how big you thought the bed was, you told me to measure it myself, which i did, using the figure you provided for the room.
That is a width of 2.85m which is 9 foot 4 inches.

Allowing for a 4 inch wide brick in the end wall this gives an internal width of 9 foot. allowing for a small gap we would be talking about a bed nearly 9 foot in length

I then posted:
"From your own figures you are saying the bed is 9ft long.

I will not comment. Would others like to?"

I asked others to comment because it looked very, very long to me
i did not quote you as is obvious from my post above; your reply was to say I was lying!

I questioned if a bed this long would not act as a barricade to the partition wall door, as i expected you countered this by producing another plan with the following info attached

"OK. I use centimeters.

The bed is 3,17 centimeters if it was 2 meters.

The width of the bed could be, like this, don´t know, about 1,30.

The door between 26 and 13 opens into 26. OK."



That gives a bed length of 6 foot 6 and a half inches

This gives a gap between the walls of the room and the bed
of 2 foot 4 and a half inches, this is a considerable gap, and does not necessarily support your theory.

it is true is it not there is no bed on the fire insurance plan?

Therefore is it possible to ask where you get the measurement for the bed from ?

what source are you using? or is it a guess?

Which ever of the two latter plans you use, the head of the bed is much nearer to the partition wall, than previously,
Do you agree?

The MJK3 photograph, which you use in your suggestion, is taken at a slight angle looking back at the door, it is not quite level ( I would say window, but that is not my point)
Do you agree?

Given that Kelly appears to have been killed while laying at the top left hand side of bed and then moved across to the centre /right side of the bed. The body does not now line up with the door in MJK3.

For this to work the body would have to be moved not only across but down the bed.
It would then have to be moved back to the top of the bed for MJK1. where Kelly’s head is at the top of the bed.

This seems the only series of movements that fit your theory.



Just as an side, and it doesn't change the figures, can i ask why you convert from imperial to metric, when most of the discussions on casebook are in imperial measurement? it seems alot of bother to go to, given that it probably be convert back by other users. its not a criticism, i am just interested.



Elamarna