Bowyer´s inquest testimony

[David Orsam]

i believe Bowyer told the truth and we have no reason to doubt him or Phillips

This is it in a nutshell. We have solid sworn evidence as to the position of the bed and table at the time when the murder was discovered and the police first entered the room, corroborated by MJK1, so all these diagrams and discussions about angles, optics, walls and doors etc., based on MJK3, are not going to change the established position at all.

[Pcdunn]

on the various ideas put forward to say that the Knob is not a knob

The OP keeps saying it means the wall cuts the table, this is nonsense the wall or door or curtain, what ever it is does not cut anything it is behind the the Table. It is because he insists the door is barricaded he says this, most of the rest commenting here do not accept that and so believe we are looking at other things. To him the light strip can only be crack by the hinges and nothing else!
Until the OP is prepared to accept that he may , and I only say, may be wrong we will advance no further.

Wickerman, nice suggestion for a wash stand, however i do not think it is, we disagree, as you say that is ok.

Pcdunn, now that is an interesting idea, it has been suggested before, can't remember where, that the head board may have been removed.
it therefore could have been put against the wall/door if this is true. Agreed the decorative heads are near to the knob shape, but not a convincing match for me. I. would say a possible

Hello, Elamarna, thank you for the "possible"-- I agree the headboard knobs are shaped rather like minarets, but I thought the very top might have a rounder knob similar to the one we see in shadow. It could be that the headboard was moved, or only that foreshortening in the MJK3 photo makes the table seem closer.

I think the light strip is from the curtain at the window, mostly because the rounded bright spot suggests to me a reflection of the flash against glass.

[Pcdunn]

Hi,

No, it´s the door leading to the court we´re talking about. Some think it has a door knob.

Regards Pierre

Ah, thanks for the clarification, Pierre.

Well, if we are talking the outside door's knob (assuming it had one, of course, rather than a latch with a bit of string), then it would appear that the door wasn't very far from the bed.

[Elamarna]

Because the door was hung from the right hand side, from the perspective of someone inside the room . Which would put the spring latch on the left hand side. Which would explain why Mary may have had a string attached to the latch...so it could be accessed from reaching in the broken pane while outside the window.

Michael

You have now said this twice. However all the plans I can find show it the other way round.
That is the hinges are on the left edge of the door when viewed from inside the room. With all respect why do you think this? Could you please supply a link to the evidence for this . For once I have to agree with Pierre
Regards
Elamarna

[Robert]

Michael there's no way that Mary, or Joe, or King Kong could have reached the catch if it was on the far side of the door.

An impression has gone abroad that the murderer took away the key of the room. Barnett informs me that it has been missing some time, and since it has been lost they have put their hand through the broken window, and moved back the catch. It is quite easy

[Michael W Richards]

Thanks Michael. But what makes you think it wasn´t hinged on the left hand side looking from inside the room?

Regards Pierre

Because the door was hung from the right hand side, from the perspective of someone inside the room . Which would put the spring latch on the left hand side. Which would explain why Mary may have had a string attached to the latch...so it could be accessed from reaching in the broken pane while outside the window.

[Elamarna]

Actually this thread was about Bowyers statement, and while we spend days discussing the merits of both photos the truth is Bowyer said table in front of bed,

This would hold true for MJK1, and FOR MJK3 if the OP theory about barricading the door was true.

However Dr Phillips stated " On the door being opened it knocked against a table Which was close to the left-hand side of the bedstead, and the bedstead was close against the wooden partition."

this would support Bowyer and appear to favour MJK1.

i believe Bowyer told the truth and we have no reason to doubt him or Phillips

[Elamarna]

Wickerman,

sorry didn't mention your chair idea, again like the washstand and PCdunn's bed knob it is possible, however again I see a doorknob coming out from the background, not a knob sitting on top of anything. i say this having played around with MJK3 in GIMP to the extent of both increasing and decreasing the exposure.
Truth is given that the photo is so indistinct, and we are working with a copy of a copy, and not the original plate we cannot be sure of anything,

regards

Elamarna

[Elamarna]

on the various ideas put forward to say that the Knob is not a knob

The OP keeps saying it means the wall cuts the table, this is nonsense the wall or door or curtain, what ever it is does not cut anything it is behind the the Table. It is because he insists the door is barricaded he says this, most of the rest commenting here do not accept that and so believe we are looking at other things. To him the light strip can only be crack by the hinges and nothing else!
Until the OP is prepared to accept that he may , and I only say, may be wrong we will advance no further.

Wickerman, nice suggestion for a wash stand, however i do not think it is, we disagree, as you say that is ok.

Pcdunn, now that is an interesting idea, it has been suggested before, can't remember where, that the head board may have been removed.
it therefore could have been put against the wall/door if this is true. Agreed the decorative heads are near to the knob shape, but not a convincing match for me. I. would say a possible

[Pierre]

Hello Robert, and all,

I think we're missing the obvious. The photo called MJK1, here showing the door in the partition wall in color, DOES NOT show a door knob at all. This supports the contention that it is a non-functioning entrance or exit.

HOWEVER, MJK1 does also show the head of Mary's rickety bed, and we can see it has posts with decorative knobs on them.

So-- perhaps what has been identified as a "doorknob" is actually one of the bed knobs?

Hi,

No, it´s the door leading to the court we´re talking about. Some think it has a door knob.

Regards Pierre

[Pcdunn]

Bedknob, not doorknob?

This is the room done slightly more to scale for visual understanding. I based the sliding scale on the possibility that the brick next to the door was between 6 an 12". I used 9". I also think you might be able to see the chair in front of the window (dunno).

This is the angle I think the photog used for MJK3. As you can see, it would point in the direction of the door an dbroken pane window, and caught them in the image.

Hello Robert, and all,

I think we're missing the obvious. The photo called MJK1, here showing the door in the partition wall in color, DOES NOT show a door knob at all. This supports the contention that it is a non-functioning entrance or exit.

HOWEVER, MJK1 does also show the head of Mary's rickety bed, and we can see it has posts with decorative knobs on them.

So-- perhaps what has been identified as a "doorknob" is actually one of the bed knobs?

[Pierre]

Hi,

Look at the area around this white spot on the "door knob". Full of similar white spots on the photograph.

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

The door open inward, hinged on the right hand side. as you look from inside the room. The light is the door open a crack.

The latch was accessible through the broken pane, so it was on the left hand side of the door, but one witness account stated that Mary used a string to access it.

Thanks Michael. But what makes you think it wasn´t hinged on the left hand side looking from inside the room?

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

This is the room done slightly more to scale for visual understanding. I based the sliding scale on the possibility that the brick next to the door was between 6 an 12". I used 9". I also think you might be able to see the chair in front of the window (dunno).

This is the angle I think the photog used for MJK3. As you can see, it would point in the direction of the door an dbroken pane window, and caught them in the image.

Hi Robert,

It can´t be that angle since there isn´t any window beside the door on the same wall. There is a corner between the window and the wall.

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

Hi Wickerman,

I agree with you about the knob. It might not be a doorknob. It has a white spot on it, which probably isn´t light since the photo has many such spots on it.

If we follow James Tully, it is on the side nearest the windowside of the room. And the door is then placed in the position I showed you from the start.

Like this.

Regards Pierre