Mrs Long's address

[Wickerman]

That map is from 1878.

Yes, but the Church Street you identify, was known as Fournier Street, in 1888.

You will notice that Hanbury St. is not shown, the old name is given instead - Browns Lane.

[jerryd]

Hi Jon,

I was just pointing out a possibility for the Church Street Joshua was asking about that was near SpitalFields Market.

[Joshua Rogan]

I think it was still Church Street in 1888, if you can believe Wikipedia...

Church Street was originally going to be renamed Christabel Street in July 1893 but was eventually renamed Fournier Street on 7th November 1893[4] after George Fournier, a wealthy local benefactor of Huguenot origin. Many other streets in the area were renamed at this time[5].

But I still don't think this is where Liz Long lived, whatever it's name was at the time.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Joshua,

Fournier Street was Church Street in 1888. No. 31 was the address of Jones the Pawnbroker who took in John Kelly's boots.

But if Elizabeth Long had lived here, there would have been no need for her to walk along Hanbury Street in order to get to Spitalfields Market.

Regards,

Simon

[Wickerman]

Hi Joshua.
I wasn't sure so I checked the press from 1886-89, and we read Fournier Street, unless there were two in the same area, both in McDonalds jurisdiction?
That would be odd.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi Joshua,

Why else would Mrs Long walk down Brick Lane, past the Truman Brewery clock, unless she was coming from the Church Street [which is now Bethnal Green Road] indicated on my map?

Regards,

Simon

I'm not sure that she did. What she actually said at the inquest was;

"On Saturday, Sept. 8, about half past five o'clock in the morning, I was passing down Hanbury-street, from home, on my way to Spitalfields Market. I knew the time, because I heard the brewer's clock strike half-past five just before I got to the street."

So she could have walked past the brewery, but then she would have been able to see the clock and needn't have relied solely on the chimes. She could equally well have walked up Brick Lane from the South before turning into Hanbury St and still heard the chimes. I was going to say she could also have walked West along the length of Hanbury St, and heard the chimes before she crossed Brick lane, but that seems less likely as she said "before I got to the street", not "lane". That could just be me being pedantic though.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Joshua,

Yes, there's certainly no pleasing you.

Regards,

Simon

[Wickerman]

Hi Joshua.
I wasn't sure so I checked the press from 1886-89, and we read Fournier Street, unless there were two in the same area, both in McDonalds jurisdiction?
That would be odd.

Disregard, I located three Fournier Streets, - Bethnal Green, Shoreditch, & Spitalfields.

[DJA]

Disregard, I located three Fournier Streets, - Bethnal Green, Shoreditch, & Spitalfields.

McDonald's district included Shoreditch where Kelly's body had been moved too.

Spitalfields was Baxter's.

[Wickerman]

McDonald's district included Shoreditch where Kelly's body had been moved too.

Spitalfields was Baxter's.

This is true.

[Wickerman]

Hi Joshua,

Yes, there's certainly no pleasing you.

Regards,

Simon

I thought the same, that she 'said' she passed the Brewery, but I couldn't find that statement either.
Joshua has raised an interesting point.

I do still believe she walked south on Brick Lane, but now I see this is more of an assumption than something supported by the written word.

[Joshua Rogan]

Thanks Jon, you and Simon may well be right, if your Church Street is indeed her Church Row. It's just that she did say "Church Row, Whitechapel" according to the inquest, and it seems to me that would be to the south/east rather than the north.
I will keep digging until I find a Church Row, and then I will be pleased!

[Joshua Rogan]

Well that didn't take long! I've just found this interesting site....

http://www.maps.thehunthouse.com/Streets/New_to_Old_Abolished_London_Street_Names.htm#W

...which appears to show some sort of a link between Church Row and Church Lane, even if it is a bit backwards.

Present name ------ Former Name ----------------------------- Parish ------- Year
Church row ------- Church lane, Commercial road East ---- Stepney ----- 1912

[Wickerman]

Thanks Jon, you and Simon may well be right, if your Church Street is indeed her Church Row. It's just that she did say "Church Row, Whitechapel" according to the inquest, and it seems to me that would be to the south/east rather than the north.
I will keep digging until I find a Church Row, and then I will be pleased!

Addresses given in the press can become corrupt, we see it often throughout these murders, I'm sure you have noticed.
Church Row, Whitechapel, did not exist in the surviving maps we have access to. The Post Office Guide of 1876 lists six Church Row addresses - Aldgate, Hampstead, Houndsditch, Limehouse, Stepney & Islington.
Not one for Whitechapel.

That said, if you check out E-books, A Topographical Dictionary of London and Its Environs, you will find there were 10 addresses named Church Row in 1831.
The third one is described as:
...in Church Street, Bethnal Green, about half a mile on the right hand from Shoreditch, leading to Hare Street.

I don't have a later map of that area to see exactly where it was, but Mrs Long was from Bethnal Green, I think she was born there, so this may be the Church Row we have been searching for.

[Roy Corduroy]

There was a Church Street and Church Row both. Blue star is the brewery clock. Red star is 29 Hanbury. Her destination, Spitalfields Market is also in blue. She said Whitechapel, didn't she. When she actually resided in Bethnal Green. That's what everyone has assumed I suppose.