Did a police officer see a ripper suspect, right after the 2nd of the double murders?

[Bridewell]

Regardless of whether Thompson, who could have easily have been walking the streets on each occasion, was the Ripper or not, this matching description suggests, at the very least, that White’s encounter was with an identifiable person and someone who was known to be in the East End. This alone strengthens the credibility of White’s report.

This looks to me like an argument from self:-

You believe the man described by White was Thompson. White's description fits Thompson. Therefore White's report should be seen as having strengthened credibility.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi again,

To Monty, I should have instead included Morris. And I had no doubt you would see that it would have been very improper. I agree. But improper and many of these officials can be used in the same sentence fairly.

To Robert, he also had a birds eye view on the murder site, and I know what he claimed happened that night. But do we ever hear from the wife that he said was there also? Are we sure his wife and child were there that night?

To Bridewell, jurisdictions were being stretched, mandates broadened, and the over arching National Security bodies looked into anything they chose to. Without feeling the need, or compulsion, to share what they find.

You have to admit, the site is perfect for a stake out, there are 3 ways in and out, and the mostly vacated buildings allows for some privacy, at least from the general public.

Just an idea, but what if the reason Harveys timing puts him precariously looking into the square when its certain the killer was still there or just leaving is because he didn't actually go down the lane to the square on that pass and perhaps its because he was told not to. He just gave the time that it would have been had he actually done that pass.

Couldn't Mitre Square be easily sealed off by surveillance officers and then trap anyone that harms Kate and attempts to flee? Is there any reason that we are aware of that Kate Eddowes would be inclined to turn left out the door to go to Mitre rather than to the right and to where her "man" would most probably be? Some might toss in the age old explaination "she went prostituting", but do we have evidence that she would ever go there to do so, or that she was in fact there in that capacity? I don't believe we do.

My speculation lacks loads of corroborating evidence, no argument there...but what if this was a set-up to trap the killer and he still got away.....maybe off the street and into the Post Office where the break-in and theft happened that same weekend.

Cheers

[Richard Patterson]

This looks to me like an argument from self:-

You believe the man described by White was Thompson. White's description fits Thompson. Therefore White's report should be seen as having strengthened credibility.

The argument is if White described an actual East Ender, the validity of the account is strengthened.

[robhouse]

The area that White was in was the Jewish immigrant heartland of the East End. Many inhabitants there would have been foreign or resembled foreigners. What would have been foreign here would have been to have met a typical Englishman.

Thats quite a stretch.

[Robert]

No, that's Fleming.

[Harry D]

Has a bit of the 'Hutch' about it, does White's anecdote.

[martin wilson]

Dutfields Yard is interesting, re William Marshall's inquest evidence, the description doesn't fit Thompson though, although 'anything but your prayers' might.
All the best.

[Richard Patterson]

Dutfields Yard is interesting, re William Marshall's inquest evidence, the description doesn't fit Thompson though, although 'anything but your prayers' might.
All the best.

Here is a sighting, possibly of Thompson on Berner Street, on September 30th. It was by Israel Schwartz of No. 22 Helen Street. Schwartz saw a man leave the Nelson and stand observing Stride for some time. The man was about thirty-five years of age and was around 180 centimetres tall. His complexion was fair with light brown hair and moustache. The man was smoking from a long clay pipe. Thompson was around 175cms tall, of fair complexion. Thompson wore an old black wide brimmed felt hat, and a dark overcoat and had a habit of smoking from a long clay pipe. Thompson wore a wide brimmed hat and dark coat and had a moustache.

Respectfully,

[martin wilson]

Hi all
Thanks Richard, I had a quick search under Francis Thompson prayers and found John A Hollands website that stated he always said his daily prayers, also William Marshall's evidence that the man he saw had 'a mild educated voice'. the description is nothing like him though.
All the best.

[Richard Patterson]

Hi all
Thanks Richard, I had a quick search under Francis Thompson prayers and found John A Hollands website that stated he always said his daily prayers, also William Marshall's evidence that the man he saw had 'a mild educated voice'. the description is nothing like him though.
All the best.

Thanks. I had read Marshall's evidence, and apart from 'say your prayers' I did not see the description fitting Thompson either. I know that FT prayed nightly, while homeless, to whom what a one-time employer said,was to an unknown She. I do appreciate your searching for more info on FT.

Respectfully,

[Hunter]

Here is a sighting, possibly of Thompson on Berner Street, on September 30th. It was by Israel Schwartz of No. 22 Helen Street. Schwartz saw a man leave the Nelson and stand observing Stride for some time. The man was about thirty-five years of age and was around 180 centimetres tall. His complexion was fair with light brown hair and moustache. The man was smoking from a long clay pipe..

There is nothing in the police files about a man leaving the Nelson or observing Stride for some time.

[Richard Patterson]

There is nothing in the police files about a man leaving the Nelson or observing Stride for some time.

May I humbly direct you to:

http://www.casebook.org/witnesses/schwartz.html

For it says here:
‘Schwartz is one of the most talked-about witnesses in Ripperology’
His statement, about the man with the pipe, observing Stride, was taken on September 30th, by Chief Inspector Donald Swanson.

I feel I should also direct you to, ‘Elizabeth Stride and Jack the Ripper : The Life and Death of the Reputed Third Victim’ by Dave Yost. Who shows that the public house reported in the ‘Star’, the only paper to publisher Schwartz’s account, was the Nelson Hotel.

The ‘Star’ told how the man with the pipe, who resembled Thompson, was accused by the man handling Stride roughly, as being Lipski. This was a notorious Jew Israel Lipski who had been found guilty of the murder by using nitric acid on his victim. If the man with the pipe was the Ripper, It was this incident that possible led the Ripper to write the infamous Goulston Street graffiti.

The Juwes are
the men that
will not
be blamed
for nothing.’

Sadly it seems it is because certain detectives, with a barely concealed incompetence, prejudice and idleness, so easily dismissed Schwartz,’s account that a suspect such as Thompson might have gotten away with murder.

Respectfully,

[Hunter]

A classic example why one should not rely on second hand information. They are in error. There is no indication that Chief Insp. Swanson interviewed Israel Schwartz. Abberline reported that he did and that would have been the logical procedure at the time.

Swanson commented on Schwartz in a Home Office summary report of Oct. 19 and his summary was based on reports forwarded to him. That was his job.

The Star report conflicts with police documents on several levels, therefore picking and choosing a little from both while discarding or ignoring other aspects simply reinforces one's own bias without attempting to gain any meaningful insight into the events in question.

And the Star report never mentioned the word "LIpski."

But that's what suspect theorists do... and is why this field is a minefield to the uninformed and unwary.

[Richard Patterson]

A classic example why one should not rely on second hand information. They are in error.

Are you 1st hand information?

[Batman]

The article likely made up by the journalist was published after White's death.