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Did a police officer see a ripper suspect, right after the 2nd of the double murders?

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  • Did a police officer see a ripper suspect, right after the 2nd of the double murders?

    Did a police officer see a ripper suspect, right after the 2nd of the double murders?

    A police officer’s description of Jack the Ripper when he encountered him just after the second of the double murders on September 30th is a perfect match for the English poet and writer, Francis Thompson. (1859-1907). An article that appeared in the ‘People’s Journal’ after the turn of the century, from a Scotland Yard man, told of a meeting between a Dr. Robert Anderson and Detective Sergeant Stephen White, (Born 1854 Died 1919, warrant number 59442). It is said that White’s report may have led Dr Anderson to suspect that others knew the identity of the killer. Dr Robert Anderson, Later Sir Anderson, was the Assistant Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police and in charge of the Whitechapel Murder investigation from October 6th 1888 until the file was closed in 1892.

    Detective White had been assigned to the recently formed Special Branch. White's duties involved the detection of political terrorists. The ‘People’s Journal’ tells that at approximately 1:45 AM on the 30th of September 1888 Detective Sergeant Stephen, aged 34, stood in wait for the killer.

    It was Detective White’s normal duties in this maze of slums to capture members of political organizations such as the Anarchists, Fenians, and Dynamitards. His being assigned indicates the pressing need to catch the killer. It seem that White had been placed on duty because of suspicions that terrorists were behind the Ripper murders with the aim to weaken the English establishment and government.

    Evidently Detective White had been assigned a covert operation overseeing with two other officers, one possibly being, Amos Simpson of N, in what was probably Mitre Square, this area in Whitechapel, then Imperial Club premises, where suspected terrorists were said to gather. White lay in watch in a district patrolled by the City Police and consequently not in his jurisdiction, he could not afford to expose himself and his men unless he was certain that he would capture the killer.

    White’s magazine account, published in 1919, just over a week after his death, had him tell his close encounter with who was possible the murderer. White was on duty on the 30th September 1888. Sergeant Inspector Abberline had sent White, with PC Dolen to Berner street , to enquire house-to-house about the murder of Elizabeth, the first of two women killed in the very early hours that morning.

    White’s account is usually discredited because he was not called as a witness to any murder enquiry and because he incorrectly stated that the murder site was a cul-de-sac. None of the two September 30th murder sites, apart from possibly the gateway where Stride’s body was found, were dead ends. Mitre Square, for example, where Eddowe’s body was found, had three exits. There was Mitre passage, leading west to Mitre Street. Another dark covered passage that led north to St. James Place. The third exit, leading east, was a passage to Duke Street. This was covered with windows above it. We should consider, though when, we look at Mitre Square from the killer’s viewpoint, may have indeed been a cul-de-sac. There was only one guaranteed escape route. Mitre Passage and the passage to Duke Street, were both on the route of patrolling police officers. Each officer would return to mitre square every quarter of an hour or so, carrying a lamp. The two officers had different routes, that overlapped at Mitre Square at different times. The murderer, who may have reconnoitred the site earlier, observing their beats, would have seen that Duke Street to the north was unpatrolled. The murderer may have already planned to take the north exit, thinking it was empty. One could only imagine the Ripper’s surprise to find a man in plainclothes, lurking in the dark.

    Francis Thompson, a Ripper suspect, may have known these routes officers made at night, on these streets because he had slept mostly on the streets of the East End, for almost three years. By 1888 he had trained in human dissection for six years. He had just had a terrible argument with a prostitute lover, who after threatening to leave him, diapered. He was carrying a dissecting scalpel. This was mainly next to Whitechapel in the Limehouse district. Although homeless, on three rare occasions, Thompson acquired enough money to buy fresh clothes and a coat. On September 30, Francis Thompson was aged 29, though his living conditions might have made him appear older. He was around 175cms in height and his slim build was shown in his fingers that were long and tapering. An associate of his, Mr Wilfrid Whitten, of the “Academy” magazine, gave a description of Francis Thompson a few years after 1888.

    'when he opened his lips he spoke as a gentleman and a scholar...His great brown[Inverness] cape...nondescript garb...a basket slung over his shoulder on a strap a strange object his fish - basket, we called it...the bulky cape...His low voice had a peculiar quaver, a slight wobble in tone, that empathized its curiously measured cadence.'

    Thompson's sister, Mary, described her brother, before 1888, starting and ending with the unusual appearance of his eyes,

    'A dark grey with a bluish shade in them - something like the shade one sees in mountain lakes. Full of intelligence and light. His hair was very dark brown, so dark as to appear almost black at first sight. His complexion was sallow rather than pale, drawing further attention to his eyes.'

    Here is Sergeant Stephen White’s description of his encounter with Jack the Ripper, and possibly Francis Thompson.

    For five nights we had been watching a certain alleyway just behind the Whitechapel road. It could only be entered from where we had two men posted in hiding, and persons entering the ally were under observation by the two men. It was a bitter cold night when I arrived at the scene to take the report of the two men in hiding. I was turning away when I saw a man coming out of the alley. He was walking quickly but noiselessly, apparently wearing rubber shoes which were rather rare in those days. I stood aside to let the man pass, and as he came under the wall lamp I got a good look at him. He was about 5 feet 10 inches in height, and was dressed rather shabbily though it was obvious that the material of his clothes was good. Evidently a man who had seen better days, I thought but men who have seen better days are common enough down east, and that of itself was not sufficient to justify me in stopping him. His face was long and thin, nostrils rather delicate and his hair was jet black. His complexion was inclined to be sallow, and altogether the man was foreign in appearance. The most striking thing about him, however, was the extraordinary appearance of his eyes. They looked like two luminous glow worms coming through the darkness. The man was slightly bent at the shoulders, though he was obviously quite young – about 33 at the most – and gave one the idea of having been a student or professional man. His hands were snow white, and the fingers long and tapering. As he passed me at the lamp I had an uneasy feeling that there was something more than usually sinister about him, and I was strongly moved to find some pretext for detaining him; but the more I thought it over, the more I was forced to the conclusion that it was not in keeping with British police methods that I should do so. My only excuse for interfering with the passage of this man would have been his association with the man we were looking for, and I had no grounds for connecting him with the murder. It is true that I had a sort of intuition that the man was not quite right. Still, if one acted on intuition in the police force, there would be more frequent outcries about interference with the liberty of the subject, and at that time the police were criticized enough to make it undesirable to take risks. The man stumbled a few feet away from me, and I made that an excuse for engaging him in conversation. He turned sharply at the sound of my voice, and scowled at me in surly fashion, but he said ‘Goodnight’ and agreed with me that it was cold. His voice was a surprise to me. It was soft and musical, with just a tinge of melancholy in it, and it was the voice of a man of culture- a voice altogether out of keeping with the squalid surroundings of the East End. As he turned away, one of the police officers came out of the house he had been in, and walked a few paces into the darkness of the alley. ‘Hello! What is this?’ he cried, and then called in startled tones for me to come along. In the East End we are used to shocking sights but the sight I saw made the blood in my veins turn to ice. At the end of the cul-de-sac huddled against the wall, there was the body of a woman, and a pool of blood was streaming along the gutter from her body. It was clearly another of those terrible murders. I remembered the man I had seen, and I started after him as fast as I could run, but he was lost to sight in the dark labyrinth of East End mean streets.’

    Richard Patterson.
    Author of

    "Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

    http://www.francisjthompson.com/

  • #2
    Originally posted by Richard Patterson View Post
    The ‘People’s Journal’ tells that at approximately 1:45 AM on the 30th of September 1888 Detective Sergeant Stephen, aged 34, stood in wait for the killer.
    Are you saying the date and time are mentioned in the article?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Chris View Post
      Are you saying the date and time are mentioned in the article?
      No. Only that White was in Berner Street on September 30th. I will retract my statement that the Journal gave a time and place, because I have not got the full article. Only White's account in it.

      Respectfully.
      Last edited by Richard Patterson; 12-15-2014, 06:31 AM.
      Author of

      "Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

      http://www.francisjthompson.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Stride

        Hello Richard. Thanks for posting this. Very interesting.

        I wonder if, perhaps, it was Stride's killing he describes after all?

        But was 30 September really bitterly cold?

        Cheers.
        LC

        Comment


        • #5
          The full article is here.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
            Hello Richard. Thanks for posting this. Very interesting.

            I wonder if, perhaps, it was Stride's killing he describes after all?

            But was 30 September really bitterly cold?

            Cheers.
            LC
            It could have been Stride’s murder, but some things make me think not. This includes that White’s department mainly dealt in the apprehension of certain classes of radical, who frequented the areas closer to Mitre Square. These classes differed in known agenda to the socialists that finished meeting at the 'International Working Men's Educational Club,’ in Berner Street that night. I can’t say if the weather was bitterly cold on September 30th. A light changeable southerly wind was blowing. There were sporadic, brief showers. From the fine weather the day before conditions had deteriorated dropping the expected temperature to 12 degrees Celsius. But the chill of a light changeable southerly wind, made colder from a strong shower at 9:50, probably made the night colder to 8 degrees.

            Respectfully.
            Author of

            "Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

            http://www.francisjthompson.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              There's quite a long thread on Stephen White here (including a full transcript of the article):


              A more believable story published after his death went as follows:
              "One night he was on what appeared to be a certain clue to the mysterious murderer of women in the Whitechapel region. He kept watch in an East End street, but the murderer's movements were not in accordance with anticipation. For about ten minutes only he left the street, and to his amazement he found on his return that a woman had been stabbed. He saw no man anywhere, and the mystery became even more baffling."
              [East London Advertiser, 27th September 1919]

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chris View Post
                There's quite a long thread on Stephen White here (including a full transcript of the article):


                A more believable story published after his death went as follows:
                "One night he was on what appeared to be a certain clue to the mysterious murderer of women in the Whitechapel region. He kept watch in an East End street, but the murderer's movements were not in accordance with anticipation. For about ten minutes only he left the street, and to his amazement he found on his return that a woman had been stabbed. He saw no man anywhere, and the mystery became even more baffling."
                [East London Advertiser, 27th September 1919]
                Thank you for the link to the interesting article. I had read it, but long ago. The article says that White’s description of the killer convinced Sir Robert Anderson, with good reason, with the murderer seen in the Jewish quarters, that the Ripper was a Jewish medical student, while Thompson was a Catholic medical Student. It is true that at least another paper, the ‘East London Advertiser,’ disputes the claims made in the ‘People’s Journal’. White’s suspect, in close detail, match Francis Thompson who was living homeless in the East End at the same time. He was probably walking the streets that night. Even if Thompson is not the Ripper, White seems to be describing him. That White might have been describing an actual person increases its merit as substantial to solving the Ripper murders.

                Respectfully,
                Author of

                "Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

                http://www.francisjthompson.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Good morning Richard,

                  What is your source material please for you stating in your articles and posts that Francis Thompson was in the East End, near Whitechapel, the docklands or Limehouse?

                  I ask because I find Thompson an interesting person and having now read three (3) biographies of him, Thomson 1912, Meynell 1913 and Shaw 1967, there's nothing in those books about the East End. The places mentioned in relation to Francis Thompson are all in another part of London.

                  Roy
                  Sink the Bismark

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
                    Good morning Richard,

                    What is your source material please for you stating in your articles and posts that Francis Thompson was in the East End, near Whitechapel, the docklands or Limehouse?

                    I ask because I find Thompson an interesting person and having now read three (3) biographies of him, Thomson 1912, Meynell 1913 and Shaw 1967, there's nothing in those books about the East End. The places mentioned in relation to Francis Thompson are all in another part of London.

                    Roy
                    The same books as yours. All those books tell you he stayed in a homeless shelter in which the men slept covered by a leather apron, a method used by the Salvation Army in their homeless shelter. In 1888 there was only 1 Salvation Army homeless shelter. It was in Limehouse, adjacent to Whitechapel. Thompson, who had walked the East End streets, wrote in a letter that he used to walk along Mile End Road at night. Even though he was Catholic he had already been briefly rescued, in 1886, by a Protestant Churchwarden, who employed him for a short time, before he was fired. This strengthens the idea that he may have been comfortable or even sought out a Christian shelter like that of the Salvation Army. Also increasing the likely hood that Thompson was sleeping in Limehouse, in the first and only Salvation Army shelter, is that not long after being taken off the streets, Thompson wrote an article praising the Salvation Army. Also I have read biographies, apart from my own book on him, that state that he was living in the West India Docks Districts.

                    Good night from me.
                    Respectfully,
                    Author of

                    "Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

                    http://www.francisjthompson.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If I'm not mistaken, White's story concerns an encounter near the scene of "Clay Pipe Alice" McKenzie's slaying in Castle Alley. This matter has been discussed at length, I'm quite certain, and whether or not you believe White's claims, the alleyway he talks about is almost certainly Castle Alley, and the circumstances he describes of the officers on surveillance there fit with the actual situation the night she was murdered.

                      John
                      "We reach. We grasp. And what is left at the end? A shadow."
                      Sherlock Holmes, The Retired Colourman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Could white have heard this story from another police man and tried to claim it for himself I bet every police officer who was serving in the east end in 1888 had some sort of a story to tell about jack the ripper.Now if a policeman did have an encounter would he report it at the time after all he's just let the world's most wanted man walk right past him?.All tall stories have an element of truth in them perhaps some police officer did have some sort encounter on the night of one of the murders with some one who knows and we will never know if it is ever proven true then of course we have proof of Druitts guilt unless the police man who told the original story knew about the drowned doctor story and decided to spice the story with a description of Druitt I think the last theory is the most likely fitting the drowned doctor into his story.
                        Last edited by pinkmoon; 12-15-2014, 03:00 PM.
                        Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dr. John Watson View Post
                          If I'm not mistaken, White's story concerns an encounter near the scene of "Clay Pipe Alice" McKenzie's slaying in Castle Alley. This matter has been discussed at length, I'm quite certain, and whether or not you believe White's claims, the alleyway he talks about is almost certainly Castle Alley, and the circumstances he describes of the officers on surveillance there fit with the actual situation the night she was murdered.

                          John
                          Thanks John,

                          David Bullock in his, “In The Man Who Would Be Jack: The Hunt for the Real Ripper”, that White was speaking about Alice Mackenzie ‘s murder. Bullock gains his information from an “Evening Star” report. This seems to incorrectly state that two detectives had been posted there to watch for the murderer, because White did not expressly tell he was with another detective. White attributed the murder on the night he encountered his suspect as another of the Rippers. Most experts disagree that the Ripper committed the Mackenzie murder. At her murder inquest Coroner Baxter told, ‘it is clearly an imitation of the other cases’. This supports the idea that it was a copycat murderer & not Jack the Ripper. Dr. Phillips told that that her injuries did not suggest the work of Jack the Ripper. Although James Monro, the Police Commissioner thought Mackenzie’s murder was ‘identical’ to the Jack the Ripper murders, he did not state it was the Ripper. Robert Anderson said, ‘the murder of Mackenzie was by another hand." Why would have White said the murderer was the work of the Ripper if he encountered his suspect on the night of Mackenzie’s death. It would be more likely not that of Mackenzie. A look on a map of the proximity of Eddowes’ murder with that Mackenzie, shows that White could may have well be describing either murder when he says he was situated behind Whitechapel Road.

                          Yours, Richard.

                          Author of

                          "Jack the Ripper, The Works of Francis Thompson"

                          http://www.francisjthompson.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If one believes the White story at all....Only Dutfield's Yard has the physical properties described AND a reason for Special Branch to be around........

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It should be remembered that the article mentioning White's sighting is attributed not to Sgt. White himself, but to "a Scotland Yard man," and was published after White's death in 1919. A to Z suggests that while the story "cannot be attached with certainty to anything known about the Ripper murders," there may well be some kernel of fact to it, and the alley description has been interpreted to fit Mitre Square, Berner St., or my favorite, Castle Alley!

                              John
                              "We reach. We grasp. And what is left at the end? A shadow."
                              Sherlock Holmes, The Retired Colourman

                              Comment

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