Was She Wrong?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks Mike, yes, it is only natural to assume the court record should include everything said at the inquest, but the reality is not the case.
The above caveats equally apply to the Eddowes case, it was also recorded in longhand.
A number of years ago I had a long conversation with the person responsible for the London Metropolitan Archives he may have been the curator, but he had a wealth of knowledge on these archived inquest records and the procedures back in the 19th century, I learned a great deal from him.
I had intended to give the Eddowes inquest the same treatment, I just never got around to finishing it.

It’s certainly a time consuming undertaking Wick but the one that you did is a great time saving resource for others. Couldn’t you post it on her too?

[c.d.]

I would not question your assertion that the police were not stupid, but Abberline questioned Maxwell and stated that he could not break her story and that he felt she was a person of integrity. She held to her story in the face of opposition from the coroner.

But that only tells us that she herself believed her story. It does not necessarily mean that she was correct. Despite her best recollection and integrity she still simply could have been mistaken.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

I could, I don't know of a procedure to add contributions anymore since Viper (Adrian) passed away.
Ironically, it would likely be listed among Official Documents, it doesn't really fit anywhere else.

[GBinOz]

I would not question your assertion that the police were not stupid, but Abberline questioned Maxwell and stated that he could not break her story and that he felt she was a person of integrity. She held to her story in the face of opposition from the coroner.

But that only tells us that she herself believed her story. It does not necessarily mean that she was correct. Despite her best recollection and integrity she still simply could have been mistaken.

c.d.

Hi c.d.,

About which aspect could she have been mistaken. She spoke to Abberline only hours after the event, the time of the event being confirmed by the milk vendor. She knew Mary on a first name basis and described the clothes Mary was wearing which were later found in Mary's room. I'm not quite seeing where she was mistaken in her recollection.

Cheers, George

[c.d.]

Hello George,

Yes, she might not have been mistaken. The point I was trying to make was that her being adamant has nothing to do with the accuracy of her story. It's possible that the woman she spoke to was simply not Mary or that the event had occurred perhaps the previous day and she got confused. As for the clothes, Mary was poor so I doubt she had many different outfits. So if a matching outfit was found in Mary's room I don't think that would be any sort of smoking gun just the odds.

We also have the cries of "Oh, murder" late at night and the doctors' estimate of the time of her death. I also believe that this was most definitely a Ripper murder. So her estimate of the time she saw Mary would be a huge deviation from his standard M.O.

c.d.

[GBinOz]

Hello George,

Yes, she might not have been mistaken. The point I was trying to make was that her being adamant has nothing to do with the accuracy of her story. It's possible that the woman she spoke to was simply not Mary or that the event had occurred perhaps the previous day and she got confused. As for the clothes, Mary was poor so I doubt she had many different outfits. So if a matching outfit was found in Mary's room I don't think that would be any sort of smoking gun just the odds.

We also have the cries of "Oh, murder" late at night and the doctors' estimate of the time of her death. I also believe that this was most definitely a Ripper murder. So her estimate of the time she saw Mary would be a huge deviation from his standard M.O.

c.d.

Hi c.d.,

On the basis of your judgement we could not accept the statements of any witness. Lawende and Long were giving evidence about people they didn't know and in the case of Long some four days later. If Maxwell could have mistaken the day, then Hutchinson should never again sustain reference. To claim that Maxwell mistook Mary for someone else must surely require some supporting evidence, of which is none is proffered. Mary may have had few or many outfits, but Maxwell described the outfit found in her room, to the chagrin of the coroner.

I am of the opinion that a woman was murdered at about 4am, but my contention is that it was someone other than Mary. I am therefore not in conflict with medical evidence including the partly digested fish and chips in the victim's stomach. Why should the report, not acted upon, of a very common cry of "murder" be accepted, but eye witness testimony be rejected based on speculation without logical basis? There were witnesses other than Maxwell who might have contributed to resolve this conundrum had not the inquest been concluded prematurely. I think it was Jon (Wickerman) that suggested that statements should be allowed to stand unless there is evidence to the contrary.

Cheers, George