What Lawende meant by 'sailor' or 'seaman'?

[I1ariusz]

Hello all,

I've always wandered about this. He gave us description of a man but none of the details seem to point specifically to 'sailor' or 'seaman' appearence. What was the detail then? Someone suggested once (I think) it might've been about his complexion. What were other traits of a seaman at the time? Specific hat, coat or anything like that? Perhaps he thought that cause he saw man who was 'shabby' and that's how Lawende saw sailors operating in the are. Anyone has other guesses? If this topic is duplicated then sorry in advance . Also maybe there's no mistery about this but by reading multiple of books I've never actually came across any explanation.

Cheers,
M

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi M,

Welcome to Casebook.

We don’t know why he mentioned the appearance of a sailor. His description was:

A MAN, age 30, height 5 ft. 7 or 8 in., complexion fair, moustache fair, medium build; dress, pepper-and-salt colour loose jacket, grey cloth cap with peak of same material, reddish neckerchief tied in knot; appearance of a sailor.

I tend to think that it might have been the reddish neckerchief and the peak cap or maybe just the cap that reminded Lawende of a sailor. A lot of people wore second or third hand or just cast-off clothes so maybe he’d acquired a sailors cap somewhere. It’s not impossible that he might have been a sailor or a former sailor though. We just have no way of knowing.

[I1ariusz]

Hi M,

Welcome to Casebook.

We don’t know why he mentioned the appearance of a sailor. His description was:

A MAN, age 30, height 5 ft. 7 or 8 in., complexion fair, moustache fair, medium build; dress, pepper-and-salt colour loose jacket, grey cloth cap with peak of same material, reddish neckerchief tied in knot; appearance of a sailor.

I tend to think that it might have been the reddish neckerchief and the peak cap or maybe just the cap that reminded Lawende of a sailor. A lot of people wore second or third hand or just cast-off clothes so maybe he’d acquired a sailors cap somewhere. It’s not impossible that he might have been a sailor or a former sailor though. We just have no way of knowing.

Herlock thanks for the response!
It might be something good to know. Guess there was some idea of how sailor was looking at the time. Interesting thing is that also Lawende didn't suggest he was looking Jewish or foreign in any way. Speaking about this I'm also wondering if there was any detail about his (Ripper) speach? Meaning: did anyone noticed his accent? Thats a question which comes to mind with Elisabeth Long. But i digress.

[I1ariusz]

Herlock thanks for the response!
It might be something good to know. Guess there was some idea of how sailor was looking at the time. Interesting thing is that also Lawende didn't suggest he was looking Jewish or foreign in any way. Speaking about this I'm also wondering if there was any detail about his (Ripper) speach? Meaning: did anyone noticed his accent? Thats a question which comes to mind with Elisabeth Long. But i digress.

P.S. Peaked caps or neckerchiefs tied as necktie seem to be something very ordinary for that time period.

[GBinOz]

Hi M,

Perhaps he was suntanned, or had nautical tattoos such as anchors or mermaids. Grainger was known to have such tattoos on his arms and neck, and he was identified as JtR by an unspecified witness at the time of his attack on a woman.

Cheers, George

[I1ariusz]

Hi M,

Perhaps he was suntanned, or had nautical tattoos such as anchors or mermaids. Grainger was known to have such tattoos on his arms and neck, and he was identified as JtR by an unspecified witness at the time of his attack on a woman.

Cheers, George

Hi George, it is possible. I guess there were stereotypes about sailors that day and possibly Lawende was thinking about one of them. I'll bet there's someone (some historian) who knows something bout this. We have similar thing with Long when she suggested that the suspect was looking foreign (which at the time, supposedly, meant that he was Jewish).

Cheers,
M

[Sam Flynn]

Here's a police artist's impression that was circulated at the time:

[I1ariusz]

Here's a police artist's impression that was circulated at the time:

Not sure about that - the guy on the picture does not have moustache. He also seems a bit older and too happy for my taste, so criminal profile does not fit either.

[c.d.]

Here's a police artist's impression that was circulated at the time:

Hmmm....was there any mention of a tall, skinny, brunette woman as an accomplice?

c.d.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Maybe it was the way he wore his neckerchief [ tied in a knot ].

Regards Darryl

[I1ariusz]

Maybe it was the way he wore his neckerchief [ tied in a knot ].

Regards Darryl

In this article (photo of Jack London) we can see couple of men having something similar tied to their neck:

https://www.sonomanews.com/article/lifestyle/examining-jack-london-the-photographer/

It's possible that it was considered a style of seamen.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Here's a police artist's impression that was circulated at the time:

Hi Sam, a former poster was convinced that the man was actually a sailor and that Lawende’s description was somehow proof. I mentioned the possibility of the man having a parrot on his shoulder but he just didn’t see the funny side.

[Abby Normal]

Hello all,

I've always wandered about this. He gave us description of a man but none of the details seem to point specifically to 'sailor' or 'seaman' appearence. What was the detail then? Someone suggested once (I think) it might've been about his complexion. What were other traits of a seaman at the time? Specific hat, coat or anything like that? Perhaps he thought that cause he saw man who was 'shabby' and that's how Lawende saw sailors operating in the are. Anyone has other guesses? If this topic is duplicated then sorry in advance . Also maybe there's no mistery about this but by reading multiple of books I've never actually came across any explanation.

Cheers,
M

one of tje other witnesses said the suspect was wearing a type of hat..."like something a sailor would wear." so is go with the hat for the reason or the hat and other things.

[I1ariusz]

one of tje other witnesses said the suspect was wearing a type of hat..."like something a sailor would wear." so is go with the hat for the reason or the hat and other things.

Thanks Abby, you might be right here. I'm gonna try to find some photos of how sailors (or docker workers) could look in Victorian times.

[New Waterloo]

Hi all. The description provided by Herlock works for me. Loose jacket is interesting. I think most have used the word coat when descrbing suspects. A jacket is cut pretty high up on body compared with a coat and cloth cap means a bit floppy not rigid formal. You are right Abby re hat.Dont know why but sailors have a sort of different look. Sort of bit flashy (wrong word help). Yes I1 some pictures of sailors would be great
NW