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No, I’m not about to discuss a Salvador Dali painting
. I’ve been having a fresh look at the 6 possible sightings of Stride in the company of a man. So…
Just before 11.00 Best and Gardner saw a couple in the doorway of The Bricklayers Arms in Settles Street which was the other side of Commercial Road opposite Christian Street (described by Best as being around 200 yards from the scene of the murder) They had already been served when Best arrived and appeared affectionate but left just after 11.00 after comments made by Best and his friends.
Description: 5’5”, black suit, morning coat, billycock hat, thick black moustache, weak/sore eyes.
The next possible sighting was opposite number 58 Berner Street by William Marshall (who lived at number 64). The couple were three houses away, across the road and in poor lighting which meant that he couldn’t describe the man’s face. Marshall said that he’d been on his doorstep since 11.30 and his statement places his sighting at 11.45 but he makes no mention of seeing the pair arrive or from which direction they came. He didn’t say that they passed him though, so it seems likely that they came from the direction of Fairclough Street (which would have been the case if they had been in Settles Street) He heard the man say: “you would say anything but your prayers.” He was drawn to them because they were kissing but he didn’t pay them much attention although he said that they didn’t appear drunk, but as they were kissing, standing still and talking normally it’s difficult to place much faith in an assessment of whether or not either of them were drunk. They certainly weren’t being rowdy and so it might have been more accurate to say that they weren’t obviously drunk. He saw them walk leisurely away. “They went away down the street, towards Ellen-street.” This again supports that they had come from the direction of Fairclough Street. When asked if the man had a moustache he said “I cannot say. I do not think he had.” They would have passed him on the opposite side of the road but perhaps it was Stride who walked on the right side of the pavement partially obscuring the man; and in poor lighting so this gives a reasonable explanation of why he might have missed a thick, black moustache. So where were they going? Might the explanation be that number 68 was The George IV pub? Marshall didn’t mention seeing them cross over the road but the street was poorly lit and maybe he just wasn’t watching them. It was 15 minutes before closing time so a last drink might have been where they were headed. Speculation of course
Description: middle aged, 5’6”, stout, dark trousers, black cutaway coat, small peaked cap.
The next sighting of a couple was by Matthew Packer at around 11.45. He served the man grapes then saw them standing across the road. As he mentions nothing about the man’s features it’s only reasonable to assume that he didn’t have such a distinguishing feature as a thick black moustache. Packer’s choice of hat is slightly concerning too although this may have been because he wasn’t sure and was ‘nudged’ in that direction by Le Grand and Batchelor. I’m certainly more concerned about the moustache than the hat but the difference certainly has to be noted. A wideawake/yankee is a broad-brimmed hat. If you Google ‘wideawake’ hat the first two recognisable examples of wearers are from a self-portrait by Rembrandt and a well known photograph of Alfred, Lord Tennyson. (Tennyson was 79 with a sizeable beard at the time btw in case you’re wondering)
Description: around 35, 5’7”, stout, dark clothing, wideawake/yankee hat.
Then we get PC. Smith seeing a couple (including Parcelman) at around 12.30/12.35 on the opposite side to the club. He was sure that the man had no whiskers which surely confirms that Best and Gardner had either seen Stride with a different man or they had seen an entirely different couple. The fact that he said that the man had a parcel wrapped in newspaper is a point in favour of Packer’s story.
Description: 28, 5’7”, dark trousers/dark overcoat, hard felt/deerstalker hat.
Finally we get Israel Schwartz at 12.45 seeing the man having an altercation with a woman near the club gates. He sees the couple in passing and from the other side of the road in a situation where he would hardly have been staring. The fact that Marshall didn’t think that his man had a moustache (seen in poor lighting) and the fact that Schwartz man had a small, brown one isn’t too concerning imo. If Packer could see a small moustache then it seems obvious that he couldn’t have missed a thick black one. Again, the only issue is the hat compared to the one named by Packer.
Description: 30, 5’5”, broad shouldered, dark trousers/dark jacket, dark hair, small brown moustache, black peaked cap.
Finally, we have James Brown who, at around 12.45, went to get some supper from the Chandler’s shop which was at number 48 on the corner opposite The Nelson. He was there for 3 or 4 minutes before seeing the couple on his short walk home. He said that they were at the corner of the Board School which we had always taken to mean the corner of Berner and Fairclough but, as New Waterloo recently observed, he might easily have meant the corner of Batty and Fairclough Streets (his suggestion is that the couple might have been Spooner and his lady friend - I think that this is a possibility). A point occurred to me when looking at the map. Brown said that “they were near the wall.” The Berner Street/Fairclough Street corner was something that looked like a small building (I’d be more than happy if someone could suggest what it was - it’s too small to be intended for people) but at the Batty Street corner was a playground which would certainly have been surrounded by a wall. Maybe I’m pushing it a bit? Brown saw the couple in passing and in poor lighting. He could even say if the man wore a hat or not.
Description: 5’7”, stout, long overcoat almost to his heels.
So what does this tell us?
In general terms of age, height, build and general clothing I’d say that all 6 could have been the same man. But…two items stand out. Best’s man’s thick black moustache and Packer’s man’s wideawake/yankee hat. I find the moustache much the greater stumbling block to be honest.
So the options appear to be that either a) the couple were a man with a woman that might have resembled Stride, or b) that the couple were also seen by Marshall but they then parted before getting to Packer, or c) that the couple parted after leaving The Bricklayers Arms and Stride hooked up with another man. Take your pick.
So Marshall sees Stride with the man outside number 58. They move on and he pays them no attention and so doesn’t see where they go (The George IV is just a possibility) One problem is that Marshall didn’t see them pass his house which he would have had to have done if they were Packer’s couple (as they both quoted 11.45), unless we consider our old problem…times. Maybe a quick drink in the George IV before closing then they got to Packers with Marshall having just gone indoors. Not an issue imo.
But, of course the next issue is that Marshall’s man couldn’t have been Packer’s man, Parcelman man and Schwartz man so I’ll suggest two possible scenarios:
1. After being seen by Marshall, Stride and Mr Y parted company. Maybe they parted acrimoniously after a disagreement or maybe they agreed to meet later (possibly by the club). (I don’t think that we should avoid the possibility that Stride might have gone to earn some money by soliciting and Marshall’s man wanted to meet up for his share?) Stride then met another man around the intersection with Fairclough Street and he bought her some grapes from Packer and they stood across the road eating them (seen by Smith) They then split up (perhaps after a quick knee-trembler in some recess) and Stride returned to walk to the pub where she ran into Marshall’s man/BSMan.
2. After being seen by Marshall, Stride and Marshall’s man parted company with the intention of meeting up later. Stride goes into the George IV and meets a bloke; maybe someone she knows. They leave the pub at, or near to, closing time and walk to Packer’s shop. Then ‘as above.’
3. The couple passed the George IV then split up with Stride meeting a man somewhere in that area.
Is it possible that the man that Marshall saw wasn’t BSMan? It’s possible but, apart from the closeness of the description, we have the fact that Stride didn’t act like she was being attacked by a stranger (no loud screams etc) so this might (and I’m only saying ‘might’) indicate that Stride had either known the man for a time or that she had already met him earlier that evening and so had no sense of real fear.
This leaves Brown’s couple to account for and the question of where Stride went after being seen by PC. Smith (not very far of course)
Option 1 - The couple went to the corner and stood out of sight in Fairclough Street where they we seen by Brown, they parted company soon after with Stride walking to the gates and her altercation with BSMan.
Option 2 - They went somewhere other than the corner but not far away for a quick bit of fun before separating, when Stride walked back and ran into BSMan at the gates.
Option 2 requires an explanation as to the couple seen by Brown. Here I’ll insert New Waterloo’s suggestion. While Stride and her companion were away Spooner and his lady friend, after leaving a pub on Commercial Road, had walked down Batty Street and they then stood on the corner of Fairclough Street, by the Board School wall talking. Brown returns with his supper and sees them. Then just as he gets home the pair walk up to The Beehive where Diemschitz later sees Spooner. This explains why the couple saw and heard nothing.
…
Conclusion. I don’t think that the guy seen by Best and Gardner ever got anywhere near the club. My intention though was to claim a solution but only to present a run through with thoughts. How many men was Stride with that evening? In theory it could have been 5. I tend to favour slightly fewer. I favour 1) the man seen by Marshall being BSMan, and 2) the man seen by Packer and Smith being the same. Brown’s couple might have been Stride and Smith/Packers man or they might have been Spooner and his lady friend.
. I’ve been having a fresh look at the 6 possible sightings of Stride in the company of a man. So…Just before 11.00 Best and Gardner saw a couple in the doorway of The Bricklayers Arms in Settles Street which was the other side of Commercial Road opposite Christian Street (described by Best as being around 200 yards from the scene of the murder) They had already been served when Best arrived and appeared affectionate but left just after 11.00 after comments made by Best and his friends.
Description: 5’5”, black suit, morning coat, billycock hat, thick black moustache, weak/sore eyes.
The next possible sighting was opposite number 58 Berner Street by William Marshall (who lived at number 64). The couple were three houses away, across the road and in poor lighting which meant that he couldn’t describe the man’s face. Marshall said that he’d been on his doorstep since 11.30 and his statement places his sighting at 11.45 but he makes no mention of seeing the pair arrive or from which direction they came. He didn’t say that they passed him though, so it seems likely that they came from the direction of Fairclough Street (which would have been the case if they had been in Settles Street) He heard the man say: “you would say anything but your prayers.” He was drawn to them because they were kissing but he didn’t pay them much attention although he said that they didn’t appear drunk, but as they were kissing, standing still and talking normally it’s difficult to place much faith in an assessment of whether or not either of them were drunk. They certainly weren’t being rowdy and so it might have been more accurate to say that they weren’t obviously drunk. He saw them walk leisurely away. “They went away down the street, towards Ellen-street.” This again supports that they had come from the direction of Fairclough Street. When asked if the man had a moustache he said “I cannot say. I do not think he had.” They would have passed him on the opposite side of the road but perhaps it was Stride who walked on the right side of the pavement partially obscuring the man; and in poor lighting so this gives a reasonable explanation of why he might have missed a thick, black moustache. So where were they going? Might the explanation be that number 68 was The George IV pub? Marshall didn’t mention seeing them cross over the road but the street was poorly lit and maybe he just wasn’t watching them. It was 15 minutes before closing time so a last drink might have been where they were headed. Speculation of course
Description: middle aged, 5’6”, stout, dark trousers, black cutaway coat, small peaked cap.
The next sighting of a couple was by Matthew Packer at around 11.45. He served the man grapes then saw them standing across the road. As he mentions nothing about the man’s features it’s only reasonable to assume that he didn’t have such a distinguishing feature as a thick black moustache. Packer’s choice of hat is slightly concerning too although this may have been because he wasn’t sure and was ‘nudged’ in that direction by Le Grand and Batchelor. I’m certainly more concerned about the moustache than the hat but the difference certainly has to be noted. A wideawake/yankee is a broad-brimmed hat. If you Google ‘wideawake’ hat the first two recognisable examples of wearers are from a self-portrait by Rembrandt and a well known photograph of Alfred, Lord Tennyson. (Tennyson was 79 with a sizeable beard at the time btw in case you’re wondering)
Description: around 35, 5’7”, stout, dark clothing, wideawake/yankee hat.
Then we get PC. Smith seeing a couple (including Parcelman) at around 12.30/12.35 on the opposite side to the club. He was sure that the man had no whiskers which surely confirms that Best and Gardner had either seen Stride with a different man or they had seen an entirely different couple. The fact that he said that the man had a parcel wrapped in newspaper is a point in favour of Packer’s story.
Description: 28, 5’7”, dark trousers/dark overcoat, hard felt/deerstalker hat.
Finally we get Israel Schwartz at 12.45 seeing the man having an altercation with a woman near the club gates. He sees the couple in passing and from the other side of the road in a situation where he would hardly have been staring. The fact that Marshall didn’t think that his man had a moustache (seen in poor lighting) and the fact that Schwartz man had a small, brown one isn’t too concerning imo. If Packer could see a small moustache then it seems obvious that he couldn’t have missed a thick black one. Again, the only issue is the hat compared to the one named by Packer.
Description: 30, 5’5”, broad shouldered, dark trousers/dark jacket, dark hair, small brown moustache, black peaked cap.
Finally, we have James Brown who, at around 12.45, went to get some supper from the Chandler’s shop which was at number 48 on the corner opposite The Nelson. He was there for 3 or 4 minutes before seeing the couple on his short walk home. He said that they were at the corner of the Board School which we had always taken to mean the corner of Berner and Fairclough but, as New Waterloo recently observed, he might easily have meant the corner of Batty and Fairclough Streets (his suggestion is that the couple might have been Spooner and his lady friend - I think that this is a possibility). A point occurred to me when looking at the map. Brown said that “they were near the wall.” The Berner Street/Fairclough Street corner was something that looked like a small building (I’d be more than happy if someone could suggest what it was - it’s too small to be intended for people) but at the Batty Street corner was a playground which would certainly have been surrounded by a wall. Maybe I’m pushing it a bit? Brown saw the couple in passing and in poor lighting. He could even say if the man wore a hat or not.
Description: 5’7”, stout, long overcoat almost to his heels.
So what does this tell us?
In general terms of age, height, build and general clothing I’d say that all 6 could have been the same man. But…two items stand out. Best’s man’s thick black moustache and Packer’s man’s wideawake/yankee hat. I find the moustache much the greater stumbling block to be honest.
So the options appear to be that either a) the couple were a man with a woman that might have resembled Stride, or b) that the couple were also seen by Marshall but they then parted before getting to Packer, or c) that the couple parted after leaving The Bricklayers Arms and Stride hooked up with another man. Take your pick.
So Marshall sees Stride with the man outside number 58. They move on and he pays them no attention and so doesn’t see where they go (The George IV is just a possibility) One problem is that Marshall didn’t see them pass his house which he would have had to have done if they were Packer’s couple (as they both quoted 11.45), unless we consider our old problem…times. Maybe a quick drink in the George IV before closing then they got to Packers with Marshall having just gone indoors. Not an issue imo.
But, of course the next issue is that Marshall’s man couldn’t have been Packer’s man, Parcelman man and Schwartz man so I’ll suggest two possible scenarios:
1. After being seen by Marshall, Stride and Mr Y parted company. Maybe they parted acrimoniously after a disagreement or maybe they agreed to meet later (possibly by the club). (I don’t think that we should avoid the possibility that Stride might have gone to earn some money by soliciting and Marshall’s man wanted to meet up for his share?) Stride then met another man around the intersection with Fairclough Street and he bought her some grapes from Packer and they stood across the road eating them (seen by Smith) They then split up (perhaps after a quick knee-trembler in some recess) and Stride returned to walk to the pub where she ran into Marshall’s man/BSMan.
2. After being seen by Marshall, Stride and Marshall’s man parted company with the intention of meeting up later. Stride goes into the George IV and meets a bloke; maybe someone she knows. They leave the pub at, or near to, closing time and walk to Packer’s shop. Then ‘as above.’
3. The couple passed the George IV then split up with Stride meeting a man somewhere in that area.
Is it possible that the man that Marshall saw wasn’t BSMan? It’s possible but, apart from the closeness of the description, we have the fact that Stride didn’t act like she was being attacked by a stranger (no loud screams etc) so this might (and I’m only saying ‘might’) indicate that Stride had either known the man for a time or that she had already met him earlier that evening and so had no sense of real fear.
This leaves Brown’s couple to account for and the question of where Stride went after being seen by PC. Smith (not very far of course)
Option 1 - The couple went to the corner and stood out of sight in Fairclough Street where they we seen by Brown, they parted company soon after with Stride walking to the gates and her altercation with BSMan.
Option 2 - They went somewhere other than the corner but not far away for a quick bit of fun before separating, when Stride walked back and ran into BSMan at the gates.
Option 2 requires an explanation as to the couple seen by Brown. Here I’ll insert New Waterloo’s suggestion. While Stride and her companion were away Spooner and his lady friend, after leaving a pub on Commercial Road, had walked down Batty Street and they then stood on the corner of Fairclough Street, by the Board School wall talking. Brown returns with his supper and sees them. Then just as he gets home the pair walk up to The Beehive where Diemschitz later sees Spooner. This explains why the couple saw and heard nothing.
…
Conclusion. I don’t think that the guy seen by Best and Gardner ever got anywhere near the club. My intention though was to claim a solution but only to present a run through with thoughts. How many men was Stride with that evening? In theory it could have been 5. I tend to favour slightly fewer. I favour 1) the man seen by Marshall being BSMan, and 2) the man seen by Packer and Smith being the same. Brown’s couple might have been Stride and Smith/Packers man or they might have been Spooner and his lady friend.
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