Long/Darrell?

[Debra A]

I think I found where the name Durrell originates.

In 1861 at Church Street Bethnal Green James Elias Long was living with his parents, James Todd Long, aged 50, a bricklayer born in Whitechapel and his mother Sarah, aged 42, a silk weaver born Spitalfields. Sarah's maiden name was Kirby as shown by the GRO birth registration for James Elias Long in 1845.
Also at the same address on Church Street are these people:

James Durrell head married 38 Cart Minder born Bethnal Green
Catherine Durell wife married 33 tailoress born Stepney
Susan daughter 8 born Mile End

I'm sure most people can guess what happened next?

James Todd Long (James Elias's father) died in 1866 and Catherine Durrell, spouse of James Durrell cart minder of the same address in Church Street had also died in 1865. [Catherine Durrell Church Street buried 29 October 186 aged 39 years City of London and Tower Hamlets Cemetery]

Widow Sarah Long 49, and widower James Durrell 47, married each other on 23 July 1866 at St Dunstan and All Saints Stepney. Both were living at Edward Street. Sarah's father was listed as William Kirby, a weaver

So, James Elias Long's mother was now Mrs Durrell in 1866, James Elias Long was 21 at the time his mother remarried but to me (anyone else?) it must be assumed that James Elias Long may have taken on the surname of his new mother's husband on some occassions and his wife Elizabeth must have too? Even though he wasn't a child when his mother remarried.

[Wickerman]

Thankyou for taking the time Debs, very interesting.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think I found where the name Durrell originates. I have posted this on JTR forums but also posting here;

In 1861 at Church Street Bethnal Green James Elias Long was living with his parents, James Todd Long, aged 50, a bricklayer born in Whitechapel and his mother Sarah, aged 42, a silk weaver born Spitalfields. Sarah's maiden name was Kirby as shown by the GRO birth registration for James Elias Long in 1845.
Also at the same address on Church Street are these people:

James Durrell head married 38 Cart Minder born Bethnal Green
Catherine Durell wife married 33 tailoress born Stepney
Susan daughter 8 born Mile End

I'm sure most people can guess what happened next?

James Todd Long (James Elias's father) died in 1866 and Catherine Durrell, spouse of James Durrell cart minder of the same address in Church Street had also died in 1865. [Catherine Durrell Church Street buried 29 October 186 aged 39 years City of London and Tower Hamlets Cemetery]

Widow Sarah Long 49, and widower James Durrell 47, married each other on 23 July 1866 at St Dunstan and All Saints Stepney. Both were living at Edward Street. Sarah's father was listed as William Kirby, a weaver

So, James Elias Long's mother was now Mrs Durrell in 1866, James Elias Long was 21 at the time his mother remarried but to me (anyone else?) it must be assumed that James Elias Long may have taken on the surname of his new mother's husband on some occassions and his wife Elizabeth must have too? Even though he wasn't a child when his mother remarried.

Good work Debs. To me (as someone who isn’t a genealogist) it does seem perhaps a little strange that he took on the name of his stepfather at the late age of 21 but nevertheless your solution makes perfect sense.

I’d say that you’ve put that mystery to bed.

[Debra A]

Thanks Jon and Michael.
Re taking on the surname-I wonder if it had anything to do with James Durrell being a cart minder, a job that James Elias Long also went in to by 1888. I can't swear to it but I think cart minders (they looked after people's market stalls?) may have had to be licenced in some way. If so, that's seems like it was a responsible job and may have been hard to break in to. By using his mother's husband's name he may have got a foot in? Just a thought anyway.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks Jon and Michael.
Re taking on the surname-I wonder if it had anything to do with James Durrell being a cart minder, a job that James Elias Long also went in to by 1888. I can't swear to it but I think cart minders (they looked after people's market stalls?) may have had to be licenced in some way. If so, that's seems like it was a responsible job and may have been hard to break in to. By using his mother's husband's name he may have got a foot in? Just a thought anyway.

I found this Debs after reading various bits and pieces on markets looking for mention of cart minders. It doesn’t mention licenses but that doesn’t mean that licenses didn’t exist of course. It’s from a newspaper clipping on Covent Garden.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/269691798

“Many of the cart-minders have been at their calling for years, and are well known throughout the market. In some cases the job has been handed down from father to son for several generations.“

[Debra A]

I found this Debs after reading various bits and pieces on markets looking for mention of cart minders. It doesn’t mention licenses but that doesn’t mean that licenses didn’t exist of course. It’s from a newspaper clipping on Covent Garden.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/269691798

“Many of the cart-minders have been at their calling for years, and are well known throughout the market. In some cases the job has been handed down from father to son for several generations.“

Thanks Michael, the handing down 'from father to son' could even support a reason for James Elias Long to have used the surname Durrell. I think it may have been Billinsgate cart minders that I read about who were licenced, but so many similar jobs in those days required a licence and so those jobs were hard to come by and often 'cliquey' and kept within families and certain groups.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks Michael, the handing down 'from father to son' could even support a reason for James Elias Long to have used the surname Durrell. I think it may have been Billinsgate cart minders that I read about who were licenced, but so many similar jobs in those days required a licence and so those jobs were hard to come by and often 'cliquey' and kept within families and certain groups.

It certainly makes sense Debs.

It’s not connected but I saw this one. I great old London tradition that I’d never heard of. The Guild of Whip Minders. It’s shows that even seemingly minor jobs had their own etiquettes, traditions and hierarchies.

https://m.facebook.com/2112826345694402/photos/07-january-1922the-whip-minders-guildwhip-minders-an-old-tradition-of-londons-ve/2116711488639221/

[rjpalmer]

Thanks Jon and Michael.
Re taking on the surname-I wonder if it had anything to do with James Durrell being a cart minder, a job that James Elias Long also went in to by 1888. I can't swear to it but I think cart minders (they looked after people's market stalls?) may have had to be licenced in some way. If so, that's seems like it was a responsible job and may have been hard to break in to. By using his mother's husband's name he may have got a foot in? Just a thought anyway.

Interesting discovery. I had an alternative Mrs. Durrell, but she can probably be thrown in the bin now. Taking on the stepfather's name in this instance is a bit odd, but in a place like East London, where the competition for a job was fierce, there must have been more than a fair bit of nepotism, so taking the name might have its advantages.

Do you happen to have a date of death for James Durrell, the cart minder? I'm not readily seeing him in the 1871 Census.

Might this be him?

James Durell

51

abt 1820

Jan-Feb-Mar

Bethnal Green, London, United Kingdom

Mar 1871

London, United Kingdom

1c

220

[Debra A]

Interesting discovery. I had an alternative Mrs. Durrell, but she can probably be thrown in the bin now. Taking on the stepfather's name in this instance is a bit odd, but in a place like East London, where the competition for a job was fierce, there must have been more than a fair bit of nepotism, so taking the name might have its advantages.

Do you happen to have a date of death for James Durrell, the cart minder? I'm not readily seeing him in the 1871 Census.

Yes, that is him, R.J.
He died of phthisis at 6, Three Colts Lane, Bethnal Green which is where his widow was living in 1871.

[rjpalmer]

Yes, that is him, R.J.
He died of phthisis at 6, Three Colts Lane, Bethnal Green which is where his widow was living in 1871.

Many thanks for that, Debs.

I won't drag you into the Cross/Lechmere debate but it is interesting to see that James Elias Long didn't really have much of a claim on the name "Durrell," but the clear implication is that he was still known by that name in 1888 (and even his wife was known by that name) among the cart minders at the market, even though his 'stepfather' (or more correctly, his mother's 2nd husband) and been deed for 17 years. He became a cart minder under that name, and it stuck.

I don't know if there was cart minder union or society, but I notice that they did have to be licensed with the police and had badge numbers.

[Debra A]

Many thanks for that, Debs.

I won't drag you into the Cross/Lechmere debate but it is interesting to see that James Elias Long didn't really have much of a claim on the name "Durrell," but the clear implication is that he was still known by that name in 1888 (and even his wife was known by that name) among the cart minders at the market, even though his 'stepfather' (or more correctly, his mother's 2nd husband) and been deed for 17 years. He became a cart minder under that name, and it stuck.

I don't know if there was cart minder union or society, but I notice that they did have to be licensed with the police and had badge numbers.

Yes, I think someone mentioned licencing earlier in the thread

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yes, I think someone mentioned licencing earlier in the thread

Debs is that what Kryten in Red Dwarf calls ‘smug mode?’