Four little words

[Tom_Wescott]

Jack peed on the body? Unlikely that anyone would have missed the pungent odour of male urine, even if the East End was particularly smelly at the time. I would vote for a shower of rain. Also, such a juicy detail would hardly have escaped the press.

Best wishes,
C4

I'm not saying I think Jack peed on the body. I'm suggesting it as a possibility. As to the smell, considering that Chapman's own urine, feces, and blood were all over the yard, such smells would surely be expected and I can't see how "male urine" would especially stand out to anyone, including a medical man. As for the press missing this, they didn't, as James Kent (not John Davis who I mistakenly named earlier) was reported in the press as noticing this sprinkling of clear liquid over Chapman's body.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Robert]

Hence the expression, going for a slash.

Since Jack removed part of Annie's bladder, could not this act have spilled some urine?

[Tom_Wescott]

I would expect it did, Robert. But I don't see how it would have covered most or all of her body. I would imagine that whatever the liquid was - dew, water, or urine - it got onto her after he'd riffled her clothing and got away.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[curious4]

Oh dear!

Hello Tom,

Sorry, was I being sexist? Judging by the odours on many a Swedish street, it still being acceptable (I believe) over here to relieve yourself in the nearest shady corner, I believe male wee to be more pungent. Not planning on doing a sniff test though.

I think that her clothes would have smelled strongly of it if Jack had urinated on her. One particular smell that would have stood out more among the others.

Could have sprinkled her with gin I
suppose - that particular scent would have been expected on or around poor Annie, but I still think a light shower sometime after the murder is most likely.

Best wishes,
C4

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Curious,

I'm an American male and our urine smells like rose water. Not sure about you Swedes though.

But it didn't rain that morning...no showers...so that's not really an option.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[curious4]

The rain in

Hello Tom,

Ditto.

I did check the weather and it had rained the evening before. I think there could have been a light shower sometime during the early morning. Not heavy rain.

Best wishes,
C4

[Tom_Wescott]

Why do you 'think' this? If it happened, it did so without the knowledge of James Kent and other witnesses, or Cadosch, Long, etc. Rain isn't a matter of opinion, it either happened or not. If it didn't happen, and I've personally not seen any mention of it, we're left with heavy dew, urine, or some kind of liquid being sprinkled over the deceased.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[curious4]

Rain

Hello Tom,

This is England. A quick, light shower would hardly be called rain.

I think.

But I grant you, it could have been dew. Not wee though.

Best wishes,
C4

[Tom_Wescott]

But it would still be evidenced by those in the area and on the ground surrounding the dead body I would think. Something so common as a quick shower would surely have been obvious to James Kent and others, also residents of England and people who were alive and moving about in the area at the time. I'm not saying a quick shower isn't a possible solution, but if so, I'd expect to see mention of it from somebody, somewhere. Perhaps you'll find the answer in the papers relating to something other than the murder? But until then it's not really on the table as an option.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[curious4]

Vanquished!

Hello Tom,

Yes, you have me there. Not saying it couldn't have happened but it is pure speculation.

As is the urinating idea.

All good wishes,
C4

[Tom_Wescott]

The difference is we can reasonably place a man with a penis and a bladder in the backyard of 29 Hanbury Street at the appropriate time who was provably not shy about expressing his opinion on womankind. So there's really no comparison between the urination scenario and your phantom rain shower. It's all speculation but even speculation should be contained and informed by facts. There was a water faucet in the backyard as well, so it could have come from that. Perhaps the Ripper washed something, maybe his hands. Maybe it WAS Chapman's own urine, though with my lack of knowledge of such things, I can't see how.

Because of the various possibilities presented by what was actually known to have been in the backyard that morning, I don't 'think' it was any one of those things, but suppose it could have been any of them.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[curious4]

Facts

Hello Tom,

Mrs Richardson testified that the pail of water left by the tap was untouched. He didn't wash his hands. At least this was the conclusion reached at the time.

I don't believe Jack urinated on any of his victims. He had had his "fun", was pressed for time in all cases, barring Mary Kelly, and (possibly) was looking forward to the hullabaloo when the bodies were found. Sorry, just don't believe he would have hung around unbuttoning his trousers/lifting his kilt just to humilate his victims even more. Time was a factor, he could have been spotted at any time.

Best wishes,
C4

[Tom_Wescott]

So what of the morning dew hypothesis?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ginger]

I doubt that it could have been dew. Dew condenses on objects that are cooler than the atmosphere. The low temperature that night was around 50F, per http://www.casebook.org/victorian_london/weather.html. If the relative humidity for the day is recorded anywhere, I've yet to discover it. However, both the Friday and the Saturday are described as 'fine', 'bright' and 'clear'. To my mind, that argues for a reasonable relative humidity, perhaps around 50% to 65%, which accords well with the chart of London's aggregate historical humidity at http://weatherspark.com/averages/287...United-Kingdom. Calculating the dew point for those values (there's a handy slider-type tool at http://www.dpcalc.org/) shows that dew wouldn't have formed on Annie's body unless she reached a temperature between 39F and 32F, which just wasn't going to happen under the conditions.

If her skin or clothing had gotten wet, it was through some other agency than the formation of dew.

[curious4]

Thanks

Hello Ginger,

Thanks. I did look up facts regarding the formation of dew, but as I usually spent my science lessons catching up on sleep, I rapidly found my attention wandering and gave up. Great to have things explained so clearly.

Although, looking up "Weather conditions in London on the nights of the Whitechapel murders", I got a slightly different weather picture.

Not dew then. Gin?

Best wishes,
C4