Who was the best witness to have seen Jack the Ripper?

[Haskins]

Just a quick insouciant poll.

Who was the best witness to have seen Jack the Ripper, in your view?

Elizabeth Long aka Darrell - Saw man c. 5 ft 4, wearing deerstalker and dark clothing, prior to Annie Chapman's murder.

William Smith, City PC - Saw a man 5 ft 7, aged about 28, wearing a deerstalker and dark clothing, prior to Catherine Eddowe's murder.

Israel Schwartz - Saw a man 5 ft 5 with a moustache, broad build, aged about 30, wearing a black cap and dark clothing, prior to Elizabeth Stride's murder.

Joseph Lawrende - Saw a man of "middling" height, fair moustache, medium build, about 30, wearing a deerstalker and dark clothing with the look of a sailor, before Catherine Eddowe's

Sarah Lewis - saw a not tall, stout man wearing a wideawake hat before Mary Kelly's murder.

George Hutchinson - Saw a man 5 ft 6, with a slight moustache, aged about 34 -35, with a dark felt hat and dark clothing before the Mary Kelly murder.

Someone else - please post details.

[Fisherman]

Out of the ones you mention, Lawende is the best witness. The time schedule stipulates this, together with the fact that Eddowes wore clothing that was recognized by Lawende afterwards, a skirt with Michaelmas daisies being among the garments - it would have been rather a distinguishable piece of clothing.

Of course, Schwartz may have been even closer in time to the Stride murder occasion - but more doubt exists as to whether she was a Ripper victim than in the Eddowes case, meaning that Lawende is a bet that is easier to agree upon generally in Ripperological context.

The best,
Fisherman

[The Good Michael]

If you look at all the sightings just listed in their abbreviated form, there's not significant difference between them. I wonder if that was the poster's intent.

Mike

[Hunter]

William Smith wasn't a city PC and Lawende's description didn't specifically mention a deerstalker's hat. Swanson also noted that the man seen by Smith and the one described by Schwartz were probably not the same individual.

[Haskins]

William Smith wasn't a city PC and Lawende's description didn't specifically mention a deerstalker's hat. Swanson also noted that the man seen by Smith and the one described by Schwartz were probably not the same individual.

Apologies that is right. Also he saw the suspect before Stride's murder, not Eddowes. But too late to correct.

[Haskins]

If you look at all the sightings just listed in their abbreviated form, there's not significant difference between them. I wonder if that was the poster's intent.

Mike

No it wasn't.

[The Good Michael]

No it wasn't.

It is remarkable then. It either shows that many men in the East End were similar, or that many people saw the killer...going by just your shortened version of descriptions.

Mike

[Damaso Marte]

Many of us here don't believe Schwartz at all. My view is that if Schwartz is a legitimate witness, then Stride was not a Ripper victim.

[The Good Michael]

Many of us here don't believe Schwartz at all. My view is that if Schwartz is a legitimate witness, then Stride was not a Ripper victim.

Why is that? Is it because it appears to be a tandem killing? I see a confused witness who may not have understood exactly what was going on and was induced to give some sort of statement regardless. His story is a bit too convoluted to me to be some sort of cover-up for the Club. I don't think any conspirators would have chosen such a story or such a witness.

Cheers,

mike

[Damaso Marte]

As far as witnesses I do find credible:

1. Lawende

(substantial gap)

2. Long

(slight gap)

3. Whoever it is that saw Blotchy Face (embarrassingly, I forget who this was)

I really want to believe in the Smith sighting. I do. It would be extremely convenient for those of us who believe that Stride was a Ripper victim. But it's a tad early and it makes no sense why the killer would be carrying a parcel.

[The Good Michael]

3. Whoever it is that saw Blotchy Face (embarrassingly, I forget who this was)

I really want to believe in the Smith sighting. I do. It would be extremely convenient for those of us who believe that Stride was a Ripper victim. But it's a tad early and it makes no sense why the killer would be carrying a parcel.

i think it was Cox. Parcels may have been kind of normal.

Mike

[Errata]

I bet any number of cops saw him. He was the one in the local pubs buying them beer and asking about the case.

[Haskins]

It is remarkable then. It either shows that many men in the East End were similar, or that many people saw the killer...going by just your shortened version of descriptions.

Mike

Mike my shortened descriptions were taken from the Eddlestone encyclopaedia summary, except that the errors pointed out by Hunter were my own bolt-ons. It is remarkable how similar they are though.

[Tom_Wescott]

[Damaso Marte] I really want to believe in the Smith sighting. I do. It would be extremely convenient for those of us who believe that Stride was a Ripper victim. But it's a tad early and it makes no sense why the killer would be carrying a parcel.[/quote]

Considering the estimated age, the style of dress, and the location of Smith's sighting, I think it likely he saw a member of the club handing out free promo copies of the club's paper, Der Arbeter Fraint. This is one of the ways they drew in newcomers on the weekend. And the dimensions of the paper are spot on to what Smith estimated was the parcel. A stack of unfolded papers wrapped with string would indeed look like a package to the passerby. If I'm correct I have an idea of who the man was, because there was one of the paper's staff working with Krantz in the backyard offices of the time who may have been kept from the police and did not appear at the inquest, but his name escapes me at the moment.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

Just a quick insouciant poll.

Who was the best witness to have seen Jack the Ripper, in your view?

Elizabeth Long aka Darrell - Saw man c. 5 ft 4, wearing deerstalker and dark clothing, prior to Annie Chapman's murder.

William Smith, City PC - Saw a man 5 ft 7, aged about 28, wearing a deerstalker and dark clothing, prior to Catherine Eddowe's murder.

Israel Schwartz - Saw a man 5 ft 5 with a moustache, broad build, aged about 30, wearing a black cap and dark clothing, prior to Elizabeth Stride's murder.

Joseph Lawrende - Saw a man of "middling" height, fair moustache, medium build, about 30, wearing a deerstalker and dark clothing with the look of a sailor, before Catherine Eddowe's

Sarah Lewis - saw a not tall, stout man wearing a wideawake hat before Mary Kelly's murder.

George Hutchinson - Saw a man 5 ft 6, with a slight moustache, aged about 34 -35, with a dark felt hat and dark clothing before the Mary Kelly murder.

Someone else - please post details.

Ok, you have listed six witnesses.

The least likely, and to my mind the one witness you list who did NOT see the killer, is George Hutchinson - the remaining five very well may have seen him.

I doubt if Schwartz saw the killer - this was just an altercation.
PC Smith saw his suspect about 25 minutes before the murder.
Joseph Lawende was not at all sure and he was not able to firmly identify the victim.
Mrs Long just may have seen the killer but still not certain.

Lastly, Sarah Lewis saw three men that night - I suspect one of them WAS the killer.
1 - Lewis saw a man talking to a woman outside the Britannia, the same man who accosted her on the previous Wednesday night.
2 - Lewis then saw a loiterer (Hutchinson?) standing in Dorset St just prior to Kelly's murder.
3 - At the same time, Lewis also witnessed a man walk up the court with a woman, the female "worse for drink" - this must have been Astrachan & Kelly.

IMO neither 2 nor 3 were the killer, but No.1 is the great question mark.