Who was the best witness to have seen Jack the Ripper?

[Wickerman]

This nonsense about "Michaels timing fixation" is a useless rebuttal to any post I might make on the subject since its a matter of record that 4 witnesses place the dead body in the passageway before 12:45am.

Michael.

For what its worth, I think contained within your argument is a very salient point.
Blackwell advised the Inquest that he was alerted of the murder at 1:10am, yet if we are to believe Diemschitz, much had occurred within that 10 minutes.
Diemschitz had driven past the clock at 1:00am, down to the yard, discovered the body, ventured inside the club to find his wife. Returned to the yard to investigate the find. Ran across Berner St. then east along Fairclough St. to Grove St.
He returned back along Fairclough St. to Berner St. then Kozebrodski, who was with him ran up Berner St. then east along Commercial Rd. to find the two constables, who returned to Dutfields Yard.
It was one of these constables who sent for the doctor.

To my mind that is far too much goings-on to be limited to 10 minutes.
So to my mind you do have a good point.

The Bakers clock so relied on as the key indicator for the true time of the discovery of Stride's body may not have been correct.

[Abby Normal]

This nonsense about "Michaels timing fixation" is a useless rebuttal to any post I might make on the subject since its a matter of record that 4 witnesses place the dead body in the passageway before 12:45am.

What some of you are inferring, that we cannot accept witness times to the minute, suggests that some of you believe that all 4 of these witnesses were off on their times by over 20 minutes,.. since that's the discrepancy with Louis's arrival time as stated. To assume such a thing is simply silly, and hardly useful in search of the truth.

Im sorry if this seems contrite, but I have to laugh out loud when I read that Louis Diemshitz is not to be questioned, when we already have those witness statements as a direct refutation of his claim, and not a single corroborating account of Louis's arrival at the club.

But believe what you want, no-one said that anyone here must follow actual solid evidence to form their conclusions, hell, half the posters seem to be second guessing about who could tell time at all. A conclusion by the contemporary police and modern theorists that a Jack the Ripper killed a Canonical Group of women is merely a guess too...so I suppose the company is good.

Cheers

Hi Michael
what 4 witnesses?

[SirJohnFalstaff]

I find Mrs Fiddymont interesting as she seems to corroborate Mrs Long,

For example Hutchinson's JtR could equally have been wearing a pink tutu and skipping sprinkling fairy dust for all the relevance his description matters. Yet millions of words get written on the shape of the hat JtR wore (it was probably a tiara).

No one probably ever saw JtR clearly but common sense (to me) would be ask a simple question.

How many among the pantheon of primary witnesses are there that have a secondary witness independently confirm their description?

I have always liked Mrs Fiddymont / Mr Campbell. The only thing that bugs me is the fact that i couldn't find anything that formerly identify this man as Isenschmid, only "fair assumption".

I'm pretty sure that both witness could have recognized him, since he had such an effect on them.

[lynn cates]

L A

Hello Sir John. Good post.

You are correct that Abberline and Helson were merely stating beliefs. Oddly, however, the description of this ginger coloured hair man coincides in many respects with a description of Leather Apron from a newspaper cutting.

Cheers.
LC

[SirJohnFalstaff]

What Schwartz describes is so unlike what we believe any of the other Ripper killings to have been like that, in my view, if Schwartz was telling the truth than Stride must be ruled out as a Ripper victim.

I haven't been here long, and while I consider Stride a JtR victim, I just recently noticed that she's the only "immigrant" victim of the lot.

Could it be another argument ruling out Stride as a JtR victim?

Now would that make Jack too political?

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Hello Sir John. Good post.

You are correct that Abberline and Helson were merely stating beliefs. Oddly, however, the description of this ginger coloured hair man coincides in many respects with a description of Leather Apron from a newspaper cutting.

Cheers.
LC

Thanks. It's a bit frustrating, isn't it?

[SirJohnFalstaff]

re: peaked cap

I'm researching about street gangs of the era. I stumbled into an article saying that gangs would often wear a distinctive look. One of them, from Manchester, fancied wearing peaked caps.

[John Wheat]

I think its a bad idea to totally count or discount any witnesses. We don't know who did or who didn't see Jack.

[Damaso Marte]

I haven't been here long, and while I consider Stride a JtR victim, I just recently noticed that she's the only "immigrant" victim of the lot.

Could it be another argument ruling out Stride as a JtR victim?

Now would that make Jack too political?

The Irish would not be considered foreign? I know that its technically not immigration as Ireland was in union at the time, but...

[SirJohnFalstaff]

The Irish would not be considered foreign? I know that its technically not immigration as Ireland was in union at the time, but...

I thought Ireland was ruled by London until early 20th century.

[lynn cates]

not frustrated

Hello Sir John. Thanks.

Oddly, I am not frustrated, but, rather, invigourated.

Cheers.
LC

[Mr Lucky]

re: peaked cap

I'm researching about street gangs of the era. I stumbled into an article saying that gangs would often wear a distinctive look. One of them, from Manchester, fancied wearing peaked caps.

Hi SirJohn

Those type of gangs were found only in the cotton producing regions around Manchester, they are known as "scuttlers", each gang wore distinctive clothing and maintained a territory - the gangs would simply attack each, they seemed to have no strong criminal links , seemingly interested in little other than violence.

They generally behaved more like football hooligan firms than criminal enterprises.

[Abby Normal]

Hi SirJohn

Those type of gangs were found only in the cotton producing regions around Manchester, they are known as "scuttlers", each gang wore distinctive clothing and maintained a territory - the gangs would simply attack each, they seemed to have no strong criminal links , seemingly interested in little other than violence.

They generally behaved more like football hooligan firms than criminal enterprises.

Not sure about the street gang thing, but one thing im sure of is the ripper was wearing a peaked cap that night and was seen by Marshall, Schwartz, Lawende, someone in Church street and possibly Smith.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

I was pointing the fact that peaked cap, while a military and merchant navy accessory, was not exclusive to them.

[Bridewell]

Not sure about the street gang thing, but one thing im sure of is the ripper was wearing a peaked cap that night and was seen by Marshall, Schwartz, Lawende, someone in Church street and possibly Smith.

Hi Abby. It's good to see someone else considering the possibility that the Church Street sighting just might be relevant.