Witnesses of the lower class

[spyglass]

Hi Spyglass,

From what remains to us, it doesn't appear to be the case. The inquests were well on board with hearing the testimony of all and sundry, and we know the police took Schwartz and Lawende seriously. Add in the large scale house to house enquiries and it appears that the lower classes were being actively sought out.
Victorian prejudices could have played a part though, the 'no gentile could have done it' attitude, and any better class suspects might not have been investigated too thoroughly if they had the right background possibly. But no, I don't think witnesses of the lower orders were dismissed on that basis.

(The Titanic inquest was a different proposition altogether though. The sinking was indisputable and the White Star line had to control the damage on a large scale, so tales of poor seamanship, inaction and lifeboats half filled with toffs only had to be played down. Lightoller redeemed himself at Dunkirk though.)

Hi,
But say just for arguments sake a hypothetical lower class witness swore blind that they saw Prince Eddie hanging around Millers Court, would a ranking Police Officer even entertain taking a statement, or even if he did would it go straight in the bin on the biased believe that they couldn't have possibly seen him?
where as if a respectable Doctor of high standing had made that claim, although staying under wraps, I feel pretty certain that it would be taken more seriously.

As for the Titanic, it was only due to the lower class survivors testament that we know for example the ship split in two just before sinking, where as the crew members said it didn't and so that myth continued as truth in films and books only until James Cameron rectified the wrongs with his film.

I just like to add that I dont feel comfortable using the terth"lower class " but cant think of an alternative.

Regards

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Hi Spyglass,

From what remains to us, it doesn't appear to be the case. The inquests were well on board with hearing the testimony of all and sundry, and we know the police took Schwartz and Lawende seriously. Add in the large scale house to house enquiries and it appears that the lower classes were being actively sought out.
Victorian prejudices could have played a part though, the 'no gentile could have done it' attitude, and any better class suspects might not have been investigated too thoroughly if they had the right background possibly. But no, I don't think witnesses of the lower orders were dismissed on that basis.

(The Titanic inquest was a different proposition altogether though. The sinking was indisputable and the White Star line had to control the damage on a large scale, so tales of poor seamanship, inaction and lifeboats half filled with toffs only had to be played down. Lightoller redeemed himself at Dunkirk though.)

[Damaso Marte]

This seems especially likely given how many of the witnesses would have had a foreign accent.

[JeffHamm]

Hi all,
when witness statements from those regarded as lower class were taken by the police and also the recording of statements in court, can we trust they were put on recorrd word for word and accurately .
I came across an old documentary on the Titanic recently, and it seems all statements made by the lower class passengers who survived, if their statements contradict those of the higher class passengers or officers, they were deemed to be wrong and not recorded in some case , just because of who they were..

Regards

Hi spyglass,

Given statements were recorded by hand, it is in all probability that transcription errors will have occurred. Also, given the different idioms and turns of phrases that would be used by different classes, it would not surprise me if the police also had to do some "translations" at times, creating another potential source of error.

Regardless of those possibilities (obviously, we can't know for sure if any of those actually occurred, but we must not presume they never did), the biases of the time are very important for us to keep in mind. Statements from Police and medical personnel will have been given greater preference over working class men, who in turn will be given preference over working class woman, who in turn will be given preference over the testimony of destitute woman (unfortunates). The influence of such biases is likely one of the stumbling blocks the police had, but failed to realize, at the time. When we review the statements and evidence, it is important we try to set those biases aside. Just as important, of course, is that we must at the same time try not to introduce our own modern biases, otherwise it's just the same underlying problem.

- Jeff

[spyglass]

Hi all,
when witness statements from those regarded as lower class were taken by the police and also the recording of statements in court, can we trust they were put on recorrd word for word and accurately .
I came across an old documentary on the Titanic recently, and it seems all statements made by the lower class passengers who survived, if their statements contradict those of the higher class passengers or officers, they were deemed to be wrong and not recorded in some case , just because of who they were..

Regards