I was an eyewitness today! How I did ITT.

[Damaso Marte]

This afternoon my wife and I were taking a lunchtime stroll when we came across a gentleman who was walking up to cars and trying to open the doors. He was clearly trying to find unlocked cars to steal things from and since there have been a lot of thefts from cars in my town recently I decided to call the police.

For my safety, I walked about half a block away before calling the police. I had been less than 10 feet away form this individual in broad daylight on a clear sunny day and I was making the call less than a minute after seeing him.

Turns out, I was not especially helpful. I could describe the man's general appearance but had no memory of his clothes. My wife remembered that he was wearing a white t-shirt, neither of us could remember what color or style his pants were.

About 10 minutes after my initial call to the police, I received a phone call from a police corporal. They had sent a car to the scene and found somebody who matched my description. The police officer asked me if I could verify the man's pants. I said I could not and apologized. It turns out the suspect they had picked up was wearing bright red pants: if that was the guy, I had missed a pretty flamboyant article of clothing.

So there you go. I trust Lawende et al a little bit less today than I did yesterday.

[DJA]

How about Hutchinson

[GBinOz]

Hi Damaso,

You had the advantage of knowing you were observing an incident, unlike Elizabeth Long.

Cheers, George

[Varqm]

First of all were you having a conversation with you're wife when you saw the guy?Were you more focused on her in you're walk? Were there a number of people in the street?Were cars passing by? Was you're attention drawn to the things mentioned above?
Lawende said he could not identify the man,I do not know why they chose him as a witness in Sadlers case.
Long was alone and there were no other people in the street and carriages passing by to grab her attention.She saw the woman's face and heard a conversation.
Totally different.

[GBinOz]

Long was alone and there were no other people in the street and carriages passing by to grab her attention.She saw the woman's face and heard a conversation.
Totally different.

Not according to Long, or Amelia Richardson. It was Market Day.

[Varqm]

Not according to Long, or Amelia Richardson. It was Market Day.

On the part of the street when Long saw the couple where there people,just after turning right from Brick lane.Show us where it says there were.

[GBinOz]

On the part of the street when Long saw the couple where there people,just after turning right from Brick lane.Show us where it says there were.

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...212#post795058 Post #3172

Check Long's testimony: Was it not unusual to see a man and a woman talking together at that hour? - No; I see lots of them.

Where does she say they were alone?

[DJA]

Mrs. Elizabeth Long said: I live in Church-row, Whitechapel, and my husband, James Long, is a cart minder. On Saturday, Sept. 8, about half past five o'clock in the morning, I was passing down Hanbury-street, from home, on my way to Spitalfields Market. I knew the time, because I heard the brewer's clock strike half-past five just before I got to the street. I passed 29, Hanbury-street. On the right-hand side, the same side as the house, I saw a man and a woman standing on the pavement talking. The man's back was turned towards Brick-lane, and the woman's was towards the market. They were standing only a few yards nearer Brick-lane from 29, Hanbury-street. I saw the woman's face. Have seen the deceased in the mortuary, and I am sure the woman that I saw in Hanbury-street was the deceased. I did not see the man's face, but I noticed that he was dark. He was wearing a brown low-crowned felt hat. I think he had on a dark coat, though I am not certain. By the look of him he seemed to me a man over forty years of age. He appeared to me to be a little taller than the deceased.
[Coroner] Did he look like a working man, or what? - He looked like a foreigner.
[Coroner] Did he look like a dock labourer, or a workman, or what? - I should say he looked like what I should call shabby-genteel.
[Coroner] Were they talking loudly? - They were talking pretty loudly. I overheard him say to her "Will you?" and she replied, "Yes." That is all I heard, and I heard this as I passed. I left them standing there, and I did not look back, so I cannot say where they went to.
[Coroner] Did they appear to be sober? - I saw nothing to indicate that either of them was the worse for drink.
Was it not an unusual thing to see a man and a woman standing there talking? - Oh no. I see lots of them standing there in the morning.
[Coroner] At that hour of the day? - Yes; that is why I did not take much notice of them.
[Coroner] You are certain about the time? - Quite.
[Coroner] What time did you leave home? - I got out about five o'clock, and I reached the Spitalfields Market a few minutes after half-past five.
The Foreman of the jury: What brewer's clock did you hear strike half-past five? - The brewer's in Brick-lane.

[DJA]

"The man's back was turned towards Brick-lane, and the woman's was towards the market. They were standing only a few yards nearer Brick-lane from 29, Hanbury-street. I saw the woman's face."

[DJA]

[GBinOz]

Thanks for the map Dave, from the time before John St changed to Wilkes St. I am always amazed how you come up with these treasures. I wonder if someone could have fence hopped from No29 to Barber's yard?

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Mrs. Elizabeth Long said: I live in Church-row, Whitechapel, and my husband, James Long, is a cart minder.

[Coroner] You are certain about the time? - Quite.
[Coroner] What time did you leave home? - I got out about five o'clock, and I reached the Spitalfields Market a few minutes after half-past five.
The Foreman of the jury: What brewer's clock did you hear strike half-past five? - The brewer's in Brick-lane.

Interesting that google maps shows the walk from Church Row (now St Matthew's Row) to No29 Hanbury St as about 10 minutes. Maybe clock sync/error, or did she stop to talk to or shop with market stall owners on the way?

Cheers, George

[FISHY1118]

Would the brewers clock have chimed at 5.15 am George ? Where do you think her position was at that time if she heard it, and it did in fact chime at that time . ?

[DJA]

This is 1842,by 1853 the world's largest brewery.
Clock tower top right corner.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Not according to Long, or Amelia Richardson. It was Market Day.

The market wasn’t in Hanbury Street though.