Elizabeth Prater

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Chava,

Lizzie says she could see lights from Kelly's room under her floorboards, doesn't she?

Prater only mentions being able to see a light in connection with her ascending to bed, when any light leeching through chinks in Kelly's partition (i.e. on Prater's left as she climbed the stairs) might have been visible.

[Chava]

Sam, I still think she lived right above Mary. Otherwise why does she appear at the inquest? She had nothing to say beyond the fact that she didn't see Kelly that night. And since this is apparently true of all the other denizens of the court except for Cox, there has to be a reason she's there and that is IMHO that she lived right above and heard nothing.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Chava,

Sam, I still think she lived right above Mary. Otherwise why does she appear at the inquest? She had nothing to say beyond the fact that she didn't see Kelly that night.

Far from it - she says she heard a scream. She was also up and about at a time when Kelly might also have been, and passed her room in the early hours when she reports not having seen any light - that's important evidence, whichever way one takes it.

There were other residents of Miller's Court who weren't called to the inquest, presumably because they had nothing of material value to contribute to the proceedings.

[Dan Norder]

Hi Sam,

True, but they also asked her if she heard the bed or other furniture being moved around in Kelly's room, which would be a pretty odd question to ask if she didn't live above her.

[Sam Flynn]

True, but they also asked her if she heard the bed or other furniture being moved around in Kelly's room, which would be a pretty odd question to ask if she didn't live above her.

Hi Dan,

If Prater had indeed lived at the front of #26, then all that separated her from Kelly's room was a thin partition, a stairwell and around nine feet of landing. The sound of a table or bed being scraped across some bare floorboards a "knight's move away" (think chess) would have been audible to someone listening under such circumstances. The question was asked, after all, to coincide with Prater's reportedly having been provoked into alertness by the cat and her having heard the scream.

[Chava]

Sam, whoever lived in the room above Kelly--and we know there is a room because we can see the window clearly--would have been asked to the inquest. Prater isn't there just to say she heard a cry of 'murder' because Lewis heard that cry as well and reports it. She's there to testify as to what she heard because, I believe, she was living closest to Kelly. She heard nothing and saw nothing. This might be evidence to suggest that Kelly was alive at 1.00 am when Cox heard her singing, and dead by 1.30 am when Prater turns in for the night. I'm no supporter of the Blotchy Face theory, but I have to recognize that this is evidence for that theory.

[Tom_Wescott]

Sam,

One gets the impression you're just saving face by continually beating this particular horse (a corpse is a corpse, of course, of course). You lost this debate a long, long time ago. No worries, old friend, you're correct on your feelings about 80% of the time. Those are pretty darn good odds compared to most of us. Just let this one go, there's too much data putting her over Kelly's room.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

One gets the impression you're just saving face by continually beating this particular horse

Well, if that's what is coming across, it's the wrong impression, Tom.

I believe that most of the evidence - which I hope I have presented reasonably, and without prejudice - points in a direction that should warrant a serious reconsideration of the matter. I have done so, and I have to say that I about as certain as I can reasonably be that Prater did not occupy the room traditionally allocated to her on the night of Kelly's death.

If that's perceived as blasphemy, then feel free to stone me

[Tom_Wescott]

Not blasphemy, Sam. It seems your ideas have been given the due consideration you feel they warrant, but that in the face of better evidence, the argument fails to convince everyone but yourself and AP Wolf. Consider that for a moment - yourself and AP Wolf. When those are your odds, a smart man would be sure to bet the other way.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, whoever lived in the room above Kelly--and we know there is a room because we can see the window clearly--would have been asked to the inquest.

Not necessarily, if they had nothing of material value to add. Even the Picketts, who lived across the court and had heard Mary singing, weren't called to give evidence.

[Dan Norder]

If Prater had indeed lived at the front of #26, then all that separated her from Kelly's room was a thin partition, a stairwell and around nine feet of landing.

You're missing at least one wall, as we know she wasn't sleeping in the hallway.

[Sam Flynn]

Not blasphemy, Sam. It seems your ideas have been given the due consideration you feel they warrant, but that in the face of better evidence

I think that the "better evidence" resides elsewhere, Tom. And that's really not a pat answer. We know from the information that some of the papers picked up during Kelly's (and other) inquests, that the coroner and/or his scribe(s) left out nuggets of information, and I honestly think that we should be cautious in how we treat the official reports on that basis. They must be given due deference, of course, but the fact that they are incomplete and in some cases apparently misleading ought to be self-evident by now.

That's not to say we should take the newspapers as "gospel" either - far from it, they are a minefield. However, it's possible (I'd argue) to steer a path through that minefield by taking more than one source and comparing between them. Those sources extend further than even the contemporary newspaper and inquest reports, I might add, and include amongst other things information from cases relating to other incidents in Miller's Court.

Having taken all these into account, I personally have very little reason to doubt what I have concluded. If others, AP among them, see this the same way then that's fine - and if they don't, that's fine too.

[Sam Flynn]

You're missing at least one wall, as we know she wasn't sleeping in the hallway.

D'oh!! I meant to mention her door earlier, Dan. Not so sure about a wall, though - Prater was no Vestal Virgin

[Tom_Wescott]

And please, don't call me Pat.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

And please, don't call me Pat.

...aw, shucks! Another avenue of pleasure closed off