Joseph Hyam Levy

[Wade Aznable]

Good evening,
I may be wrong, and may have missed it through the forum, but it seems there is no "witness thread" about Joseph Hyam Levy, Lawende's reticent (?) friend... and this surprises me very much.

So, is there any deep information / detail about him, in addition to his Casebook page and to what has been written about him in the several books / Ripper Notes / Ripperologist?
And most of all, what is your opinion about him? Did he really hide something, or was that just a journalist's impression?

Thank you for your time and attention,
W

[Phil H]

Levy interests me too - I have sometimes wondered whether he might be Sir RA and Swanson's witness.

There is material about, but others are probably better placed to direct you to it.

Phil H

[Chris Scott]

Have a look at

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4926/14158.html

http://www.casebook.org/witnesses/w/Joseph_Hyam_Levy.html

[Fleetwood Mac]

Good evening,
I may be wrong, and may have missed it through the forum, but it seems there is no "witness thread" about Joseph Hyam Levy, Lawende's reticent (?) friend... and this surprises me very much.

So, is there any deep information / detail about him, in addition to his Casebook page and to what has been written about him in the several books / Ripper Notes / Ripperologist?
And most of all, what is your opinion about him? Did he really hide something, or was that just a journalist's impression?

Thank you for your time and attention,
W

Seems to me to be a problem with Levy as witness.

Whoever the witness was, he was the difference between Kosminski being taken back to his brother's house or being taken up before a court of law.

What did Levy see that would make him such a make or break witness? I'm not convinced.

Here's a million to one shot:

Not only did Levy say the square should be watched, but with the attention of the day placed upon Jack, and with their curiosity peaked; Levy and Harris actually went into the square.

[lynn cates]

two

Hello Phil.

"I have sometimes wondered whether he might be Sir RA and Swanson's witness."

But if so, then surely he saw what Lawende saw? So would it not be, "One of only two men ever to get a clear view of the ripper"?

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

LC

My interest was always in the rather throw away, journalistic remark, that JHL appeared to know more than he was letting on.

I think, some years back, there was a brief flurry of interest because he was thought to have been a sponsor for the naturalisation of one of the Kosminskis (Wolf Abrahams?), and thus might have recognised Aaron kosminski as the man with Kate. Then I seem to recall the link was shown not to be real.

In the other Kosminski thread though it's been stated that JHL retired to Brighton - wherethe Seaside Home was located. So could the ID have taken place there to fit in which him?

I don't really put much faith in JHL really proving of imoportance any more, but somewhere at the back of my mind I remain intrigued.

Phil H

[Wade Aznable]

Thanks for the replies and the link to the 2003/2004 archive - which I really had no idea could still be accessed... more and more and more to read!
(And speaking of reading, a little OT: Chris, are you the Cristopher Scott who wrote "Will the real Mary Kelly...?" - Amazon just delivered it to me yesterday!)

I'll search also for the other thread stating that JHL retired to Brighton, Phil: if that could be proved, and if Levy was already there at the time of the ID, that would really throw a completely new light on the Seaside Home affair.

Fleetwood: very interesting, and very plausible. Following that line of thought, Lawende didn't go (thus being the one who saw the least: oh, delightful irony!); Harris either didn't go, or, if he went in order not to leave Levy alone in entering an area with a potential danger, was much better than Levy in keeping his mouth shut; and Levy couldn't resist in "assuming a knowing air"...
I never really thought of it, but put that way, it makes sense.
Of course, it's still pure speculation, but at least it's not a speculation involving Van Gogh

Best regards,
W

[Chris Scott]

(And speaking of reading, a little OT: Chris, are you the Cristopher Scott who wrote "Will the real Mary Kelly...?" - Amazon just delivered it to me yesterday!)

The very same and many thanks for your custom - I hope you enjoy the read!

[Wade Aznable]

I'm sure I will!

Best Regards,
W

[Chris]

I'll search also for the other thread stating that JHL retired to Brighton, Phil: if that could be proved, and if Levy was already there at the time of the ID, that would really throw a completely new light on the Seaside Home affair.

The Brighton connection is that his wife Amelia (Milly) died there, after a long illness, on 4 September 1912:

http://forum.casebook.org/showpost.php?p=31644

But Joseph and Amelia were living at 124 Mildmay Road, Canonbury, at the date of the 1911 census, and Joseph died at that address on 16 May 1914. So I don't think Joseph himself retired to Brighton. It may be that Amelia was in a nursing home or hospital there.

[Phil H]

It is a very GOOD book, Wade.

And yes, you will find some well-known and highly respected names exchanging views with you on Casebook! I find it humbling and stimulating that here we can all be part of a communal discussion that just might advance Ripperology. The seed you plant, taken up by someone else, inspiring another thought, could be a breakthrough....

Enjoy.

Phil H

[Wade Aznable]

Absolutely true, Phil!
I'm probably the newest guy in town, and still I already exchanged opinions with, and got answers to my questions from, at least three published authors, and tens of extremely expert people (including you!), here on Casebook, all of them extremely kind and patient with a newbie like me.
This is really an awesome site.

Chris, I checked the link, and yes, too bad it was a false lead, since the connection is way way after the Seaside Home ID, and anyway for reasons concerning Amelia's health (I suppose Brighton was already used for convalescence, being reknown for its healthy climate - at least healthy in respect to the rest of Britain! - ... it makes me think, did Amelia die of tubercolosis? Nursed in Brighton, died "after a long illness"...).
Well, it seems the Seaside Home will remain controversial for a long time!

Best regards,
W

[lynn cates]

Levy

Hello Phil. Thanks.

"My interest was always in the rather throw away, journalistic remark, that JHL appeared to know more than he was letting on."

I, too, am interested. However, I agree about your assessment of the status of this remark.

"I think, some years back, there was a brief flurry of interest because he was thought to have been a sponsor for the naturalisation of one of the Kosminskis (Wolf Abrahams?), and thus might have recognised Aaron kosminski as the man with Kate. Then I seem to recall the link was shown not to be real."

Here, my memory coincides with yours.

"In the other Kosminski thread though it's been stated that JHL retired to Brighton - where the Seaside Home was located. So could the ID have taken place there to fit in with him?

I would have said, "A seaside home." Not sure that the one there is the one alluded to in the SM. Could the ID be there? Of course. But why not just fetch him up to the mental hospital?

"I don't really put much faith in JHL really proving of importance any more, but somewhere at the back of my mind I remain intrigued."

Well, put. And same here.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

ah!

Hello Chris.

"But Joseph and Amelia were living at 124 Mildmay Road, Canonbury, at the date of the 1911 census, and Joseph died at that address on 16 May 1914. So I don't think Joseph himself retired to Brighton. It may be that Amelia was in a nursing home or hospital there.
Quick reply to this message"

Now you're talking.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

LC

I would have said, "A seaside home." Not sure that the one there is the one alluded to in the SM. Could the ID be there? Of course. But why not just fetch him up to the mental hospital?

I was unclear in what I said - it was not my intention to suggest that JHL was EVER at the POLICE SH apparently mentioned by Swanson. But if in Brigton (clearly now he was not) the police SH might have been a convenient place to meet. Academic point now.

Wade

I am very pleased to hear you enjoy the site as much as i do. But please don't regard me as an expert on anything. I simply have a long-standing fascination with the case. I have contributed nothing either in new research, in understanding, in articles or in any way that would earn me the accolade you mentioned. I am touched, and grateful, but others deserve your praise so much more.

In my view, the experts here are the authors of the prime "textbooks" we all refer to (Ultimate Sourcebook, Letters, A-Z etc) plus some of the suspect books (Rob House on Kosminski or Evans on Tumblety for instance, and the MJK one we mentioned earlier). [Edited to add Don Rumbelow, Paul Begg and Martin Fido to this list - I was stupid not to do so originally. They are among the men I admire most too.] I also admire very much the dedicated band who research the archives, the census returns, the genealogical material and come up with such fascinating and detailed results that can illumine a place or open new avenues of thought.

There are many other posters here who are compelling in their intellectual dynamism, their ability to think logically, their ability to make me think differently, laterally or go down routes that I had never conceived before.

There are also those who are less to be relied upon and some care and discrimination id required. But you;ll catch on and it seems you are contacting the right people already.

Best wishes,

Phil H