Israel Schwartz,

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Michael,

Well if there were no other witnesses besides Schwartz how is that his fault exactly? It certainly would have been nice and helpful to us had there been other witnesses but it is what it is. There are literally thousands of crimes where there is only a single witness.

c.d.

I agree that it would have helped Israels case if someone else had heard or seen something....remember we have Fanny Mortimer at her door from 12:50 until 1am, we have 4 witnesses that said they were in the passageway by the body at around 12:45, (1 being Spooner..which makes me wonder what happened to the young woman he was talking to), ..including 3 club witnesses, Kozebrodski, Heschberg and Gillen. We have the young couple seen by 2 people, we have people awake in the cottages in the passageway, ...you see its not that no-one else could have heard or seen something. People were nearby.

[FISHY1118]

This Gull-crap is dull...how about one tiny shred of evidence, hard evidence, that Gull had anything to do with anyones murder.....? Right. There is None. If your going to invent reasons for people to have killed at least find some connection to any murder, let alone Ripper kills.

Wheres the hard evidence that links Druitt Cutbush , Kominski, Tumblty, Maybrick , Chapman Kloswoski, Barnett , Carrol, Padachenko .and the other 90 suspects ?

[c.d.]

It was supposedly directed at Schwartz. It was supposedly yelled by a burly man accosting the soon to be victim, and it was supposed to have taken place in the street outside the gates. Shame that NONE of that has any validation by any other witness, and that it was not included in any way shape or form in the Inquest data.

People have to focus here....Schwartz has always been a non starter, and the belief in him defeats any possible chance at discovering any truth about the Murder on Berner that night.

Hello Michael,

Well if there were no other witnesses besides Schwartz how is that his fault exactly? It certainly would have been nice and helpful to us had there been other witnesses but it is what it is. There are literally thousands of crimes where there is only a single witness.

c.d.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Possibly need to start a new thread for this but......

Is Schwartz a reliable witness?

Am I right in thinking that the police did not think so, as he wasn't really referred to/feature prominently in subsequent enquiries?

Tristan

They certainly had more faith in Lawende, who was recalled for later ID parades. The police seem to have taken him seriously and published a description of BS man. Why he was not at inquest, we don't know. The Star published a different version of Schwartz' statement which they claim was first hand. It has BS man 'tipsy' and pipe man comes out of a pub. However, it then claims that Schwartz was positive that pipe man had a knife and tried to attack him? Apart from his now lost original statement, Schwartz never crops up again, strange for someone who apparently witnessed a murder.

[Losmandris]

Does anyone know if a copy of any newspaper report that contains Israel Schwartz statement on the night liz stride was murdered exist?.

Possibly need to start a new thread for this but......

Is Schwartz a reliable witness?

Am I right in thinking that the police did not think so, as he wasn't really referred to/feature prominently in subsequent enquiries?

Tristan

[Michael W Richards]

This Gull-crap is dull...how about one tiny shred of evidence, hard evidence, that Gull had anything to do with anyones murder.....? Right. There is None. If your going to invent reasons for people to have killed at least find some connection to any murder, let alone Ripper kills.

[Michael W Richards]

it was an anti semetic slur yelled out by a pissed off ripper at schwartz who was apparently was very jewish looking.

It was supposedly directed at Schwartz. It was supposedly yelled by a burly man accosting the soon to be victim, and it was supposed to have taken place in the street outside the gates. Shame that NONE of that has any validation by any other witness, and that it was not included in any way shape or form in the Inquest data.

People have to focus here....Schwartz has always been a non starter, and the belief in him defeats any possible chance at discovering any truth about the Murder on Berner that night.

[Michael W Richards]

Does anyone know if a copy of any newspaper report that contains Israel Schwartz statement on the night liz stride was murdered exist?.

Israel Schwartz came forward with a translator later that night, Sunday, so the edition of the press for that evening news was already out. No same day publication of his statement.

[Abby Normal]

Ok i am coming in super late to this and i'm sorry for that, i hope that nothing i ask about here has been covered, but i was reading through Israel Schwartz's description and he said that there were 2 men and one called out Lipski. Was that determined to be a name, something else, was it something that was said during that time period? Was it ever determined? Also, in another thread it mentioned that "City PC near Mitre Square" was the only one to literally have gotten a good look at Jack the Ripper and as a result, so asked the other thread, was that the reason that Aaron Kosminski was sent away? And lastly, is this where a theory may come in that Jack the Ripper wasn't one person?

it was an anti semetic slur yelled out by a pissed off ripper at schwartz who was apparently was very jewish looking.

[Sam Flynn]

Ok i am coming in super late to this and i'm sorry for that, i hope that nothing i ask about here has been covered, but i was reading through Israel Schwartz's description and he said that there were 2 men and one called out Lipski. Was that determined to be a name, something else, was it something that was said during that time period?

Israel Lipski was hanged in August 1887 for the murder of Miriam Angel in nearby Batty Street. The case made quite a splash at the time, and a memo from Inspector Abberline informs us that "Lipski" was subsequently used in the locale as an anti-semitic insult.

[clark2710]

Ok i am coming in super late to this and i'm sorry for that, i hope that nothing i ask about here has been covered, but i was reading through Israel Schwartz's description and he said that there were 2 men and one called out Lipski. Was that determined to be a name, something else, was it something that was said during that time period? Was it ever determined? Also, in another thread it mentioned that "City PC near Mitre Square" was the only one to literally have gotten a good look at Jack the Ripper and as a result, so asked the other thread, was that the reason that Aaron Kosminski was sent away? And lastly, is this where a theory may come in that Jack the Ripper wasn't one person?

[FISHY1118]

I'm sure you do, but it will be wrong . Wilkes and Bettany,s Biographical History of Guy's Hospital

"Sir william gull had two or three short illnesses before the one which was the commencement of his fatal malady, but at this time he was well and enjoying himself in Scotland, near killiecrankie, when he was seized with slight paralysis on the right side of and aphasia. this was in October 1887. he recovered in great measure and returned to London, where he remained for some months comparatively well. friends who then saw him did not discern much difference in his looks and manner but he said he felt another man and gave up his practice. he subsequently had three epileptiform attacks, from which he rapidly recovered, but on January the 29th 1890 he was suddenly seized with a apoplectic attack, fell into a coma , and gradually passed away.''

so serious .... i dont think so notice the word recovered........... and just for good measure sir Winston Churchill who was 8 years older than gull had a major stroke in 1949 and was elected prime minster in 1951 suffered two more strokes in 52 and 53 and went on to run the country and the foreign office . so please spare me the dribble how gull was to sick and in incapacitated to have been jtr. the biggest mistake Gladstone bag theorist like yourself make is that gull was so sick and to old to have had any part in the murders , but then your still looking arent you .

[Herlock Sholmes]

Does anyone know if a copy of any newspaper report that contains Israel Schwartz statement on the night liz stride was murdered exist?.

I have a newspaper report from the most famous and reputable newspaper in the country and probably the world that states that Sir William Gull’s stroke in late 1887 was so serious that he had to abandon being a Physician. He could have started back up at any time had he recovered fully. But he didn’t recover fully. And he wasn’t Jack the Ripper.

[FISHY1118]

Thanks Wickerman

[Wickerman]

thank you Cogidubnus i found what i was looking for

No doubt you found the Star version of Oct. 1st, but did you also get these two?

Echo, 1 October.
The police authorities have received an important statement in reference to the Berner-street crime. It is to the effect that a man between 35 and 40 years of age, and of fair complexion, was seen to throw the murdered woman to the ground. It was thought by the person who witnessed this that it was a man and his wife quarrelling, and consequently no notice was taken of it.



The Star
LONDON. TUESDAY, 2 OCTOBER, 1888.

In the matter of the Hungarian who said he saw a struggle between a man and a woman in the passage where the Stride body was afterwards found, the Leman-street police have reason to doubt the truth of the story. They arrested one man on the description thus obtained, and a second on that furnished from another source, but they are not likely to act further on the same information without additional facts.