How strange is this

[richardnunweek]

Hi Curious,
Indeed that would point to Maxwell being not under suspicion , and someone else in 14, Dorset street, was to blame for that letter, and indeed may have been the killer.
Regards Richard.

[miakaal4]

Yarmouth

I have just read about the son of Charrington, the brewer, who was some sort of clean-up campaigner at the time of the murders in the Whitechaple and East End. He had set up some sort of convalescent home for drunks and other people who had fallen into the evil of drink in Gt Yarmouth.

[curious]

Hi Curious,
Indeed that would point to Maxwell being not under suspicion , and someone else in 14, Dorset street, was to blame for that letter, and indeed may have been the killer.
Regards Richard.

Indeed. It would be great to know what became of the people living there.

curious

[Sally]

I think it would be great to know what became of Caroline Maxwell...

[DVV]

She went back to Ireland after Johnny Depp's death and married Shane McGowan.

[miakaal4]

ooops

Sorry, I have been trying to find where I saw the GT Yarmouth bit and find it was in fact a temperance shelter at Osea Island in Essex and the man was Fredrick Charrington. So no use at all!

[Sally]

She went back to Ireland after Johnny Depp's death and married Shane McGowan.

Who - Mary Kelly or Caroline Maxwell? Or Mary Maxwell? Caroline Kelly?

[DVV]

Hi Sally. Can't remember for the time being. Have to take my Memorax !

[miss marple]

A Henry Maxwell died in June 1889 age 52 registered Whitechapel. This could be Caroline's husband. Have to get the death cert to get more information.

Miss Marple

[Sally]

Just looking back over this thread for other reasons and something occurred to me -

The writer of the 2nd November letter stated in his letter:

Look out for him on Thursday night at either of the piers, where he intends to do for two Norwich women, before closing time

Great Yarmouth's two piers are called the Wellington and Britannia piers [as per Chris's post earlier in this thread] which also happen to be the names of two pubs near Dorset Street; the Duke of Wellington [Shepherd Street, now Toynbee Street] off Commercial Street, just south of White's Row and Fashion Street; and the Britannia [or Ringers] on Commercial Street, at the corner of Dorset Street. Its probable that both were frequented by the residents of Dorset Street - The Wellington was the pub where John McCarthy staged his protest against Frederick McKenzie's 1901 Daily Mail article on Dorset Street 'The Worst Street in London' for example. This may be a mere coincidence, of course - but the phrase 'before closing time' is interesting - a phrase most often associated with drinking.

And don't we have alleged sightings of Kelly drinking at The Brittania on the night of her death; and an apparently reliable witness sighting of Kelly accompanied by a man carrying a pail of beer shortly after 'closing time'?

The 2nd November letter gets more interesting the more we look at it...

Revisiting this thread, I'm still finding it hard to accept that a letter, sent form London a week before Kelly was murdered; purportedly from an address opposite Millers Court, amounts to a series of coincidences. The piers/pubs correlation may be a further point of interest.

I don't know what this tells us - but what it might tell us is that Kelly's killer was from, or had a connection with, Great Yarmouth. Perhaps his criminal career started there - that might explain why he sent a taunting letter to the Norfolk police.

Any thoughts from anybody?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Just looking back over this thread for other reasons and something occurred to me -

The writer of the 2nd November letter stated in his letter:



Great Yarmouth's two piers are called the Wellington and Britannia piers [as per Chris's post earlier in this thread] which also happen to be the names of two pubs near Dorset Street; the Duke of Wellington [Shepherd Street, now Toynbee Street] off Commercial Street, just south of White's Row and Fashion Street; and the Britannia [or Ringers] on Commercial Street, at the corner of Dorset Street. Its probable that both were frequented by the residents of Dorset Street - The Wellington was the pub where John McCarthy staged his protest against Frederick McKenzie's 1901 Daily Mail article on Dorset Street 'The Worst Street in London' for example. This may be a mere coincidence, of course - but the phrase 'before closing time' is interesting - a phrase most often associated with drinking.

And don't we have alleged sightings of Kelly drinking at The Brittania on the night of her death; and an apparently reliable witness sighting of Kelly accompanied by a man carrying a pail of beer shortly after 'closing time'?

The 2nd November letter gets more interesting the more we look at it...

Revisiting this thread, I'm still finding it hard to accept that a letter, sent form London a week before Kelly was murdered; purportedly from an address opposite Millers Court, amounts to a series of coincidences. The piers/pubs correlation may be a further point of interest.

I don't know what this tells us - but what it might tell us is that Kelly's killer was from, or had a connection with, Great Yarmouth. Perhaps his criminal career started there - that might explain why he sent a taunting letter to the Norfolk police.

Any thoughts from anybody?

Good spot, Sally.

And, bizarrely, NORWICH was an acronym meaning Nickers Off Ready When I Come Home, which was used during WW2 by servicemen writing home.

I don't know if it was used in Victorian times, but I'd imagine it wasn't coined for the first time during WW2.

Could explain why he specifically states "Norwich women", when he'd have hard time finding a couple considering it's supposed to be Great Yarmouth (when taken literally): referring to immoral ladies as opposed to place of abode.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Indeed major coincidences ?..and the address [ 14 Dorset street] is surely the biggest of all. the home of the infamous Mrs Maxwell...
This apparent' hoax' letter I believe is crucial in the investigation.it is not impossible the killer resided there.
Regards Richard.

[Abby Normal]

all this letter does for me is reinforces that Maxwell is not to be believed. in this alternate view (different from the Maxwell had the wrong morning or wrong Kelly view) the letter coming from her address is consistent of someone who is obsessed with the case and wants to be more involved, hence also later claiming to be a vital witness.

[richardnunweek]

Hi.
According to reports she was a well respected woman in the area,her morning chores were verified. and appeared accurate.
Its more likely that the killer was either a permanent resident, or one that had been there only a week or two..
What a advantageous position to view the coming and goings of Millers court, he would have been able to premeditate his move well. right opposite the passage..
Mary may have even known him, from her being frequently in the lodging house, verified by reports of fellow lodgers..
I would say the man Mrs Lewis saw was not Hutchinson, but the killer, but as Mr A did not emerge from her room, he had to wait until he saw her in the morning , when Maxwell spotted Kelly talking to a man..
He was her killer, and the infamous Ripper.
Regards Richard

[Bridewell]

Just looking back over this thread for other reasons and something occurred to me -

The writer of the 2nd November letter stated in his letter:

"Look out for him on Thursday night at either of the piers, where he intends to do for two Norwich women, before closing time"

Great Yarmouth's two piers are called the Wellington and Britannia piers [as per Chris's post earlier in this thread] which also happen to be the names of two pubs near Dorset Street; the Duke of Wellington [Shepherd Street, now Toynbee Street] off Commercial Street, just south of White's Row and Fashion Street; and the Britannia [or Ringers] on Commercial Street, at the corner of Dorset Street. Its probable that both were frequented by the residents of Dorset Street - The Wellington was the pub where John McCarthy staged his protest against Frederick McKenzie's 1901 Daily Mail article on Dorset Street 'The Worst Street in London' for example. This may be a mere coincidence, of course - but the phrase 'before closing time' is interesting - a phrase most often associated with drinking.

And don't we have alleged sightings of Kelly drinking at The Brittania on the night of her death; and an apparently reliable witness sighting of Kelly accompanied by a man carrying a pail of beer shortly after 'closing time'?

The 2nd November letter gets more interesting the more we look at it...

Revisiting this thread, I'm still finding it hard to accept that a letter, sent form London a week before Kelly was murdered; purportedly from an address opposite Millers Court, amounts to a series of coincidences. The piers/pubs correlation may be a further point of interest.

I don't know what this tells us - but what it might tell us is that Kelly's killer was from, or had a connection with, Great Yarmouth. Perhaps his criminal career started there - that might explain why he sent a taunting letter to the Norfolk police.

Any thoughts from anybody?

Well observed, Sally.

If the reference to Great Yarmouth's piers and closing time is not significant it is a remarkable coincidence that they shared names with pubs closely linked to the WCM.. If it is significant the letter writer must have known both Spitalfields and Great Yarmouth quite well. Mary Jane Kelly had no known link to Great Yarmouth but Kate Eddowes (aka Mary Ann Kelly) did, because one of her children was born there.