Do we believe Mrs. Fiddymont?

[Jon Guy]

Lloyds Weekly 9th Sept is a bit confused about the pub name and location, but contains these two reports;

"A representative went to the Bell, in Brick-lane, where, as gossip goes, "Dark Annie" was seen with the man supposed to be her murderer. The barmaid said she opened the place at five o'clock, as is customary on a Saturday morning, as Spitalfields market is in the near vicinity. She was too busy almost to notice whom she served. She might have served the woman; indeed she had been told by those who knew her that she had, but she had no recollection of it, and certainly could not say whether the unfortunate creature was accompanied by a man."

"Mr. E. Waldron, the proprietor of the Three Bells, standing on the corner of Spitalfields market, and which opens early for the convenience of those who bring their goods from the country, was sought out, and one of his assistants was able to state :- "A woman did call in here about five o'clock. She was very poorly dressed, having no bodice to her skirt. She was middle-aged. She just had something to drink, when a man called for her. He just popped his head in the door and retired immediately afterwards. He had on a little skull cap, and was, as far as I could see, without a coat. But he gave me no opportunity of seeing him. I think, however, I should know the face again, and I think I would also know the woman. The description of the woman corresponds to a certain extent, especially with regard to age, hair, and clothing, with that of the victim of to-day.".

Thanks for posting these, JR

I'm pretty sure there's a story somewhere (can't seem to find it now) where McKenna is arrested but the witnesses failed to identify him either as the man seen with Annie in the one/three/ten Bells, or at Mrs Fiddymont's place.

Yes, McKenna was taken in for causing a nuisance, I think he may have threatened a Mrs Lloyd with a knife and run off.
He matches the description of the chap who stuck his head inside the Ten Bells, and interestingly, like Eddowes, he had just returned from hop picking somewhere in Kent. which leads me to think that when Eddowes is supposed to have said that she knew the identity of the murderer, she could possibly have been referring to him, due to his weird behaviour.

[Joshua Rogan]

I've never heard the story about someone calling Annie from the Ten Bells before - are there any sources for it?

Cheers!
Harry

Lloyds Weekly 9th Sept is a bit confused about the pub name and location, but contains these two reports;

"A representative went to the Bell, in Brick-lane, where, as gossip goes, "Dark Annie" was seen with the man supposed to be her murderer. The barmaid said she opened the place at five o'clock, as is customary on a Saturday morning, as Spitalfields market is in the near vicinity. She was too busy almost to notice whom she served. She might have served the woman; indeed she had been told by those who knew her that she had, but she had no recollection of it, and certainly could not say whether the unfortunate creature was accompanied by a man."

"Mr. E. Waldron, the proprietor of the Three Bells, standing on the corner of Spitalfields market, and which opens early for the convenience of those who bring their goods from the country, was sought out, and one of his assistants was able to state :- "A woman did call in here about five o'clock. She was very poorly dressed, having no bodice to her skirt. She was middle-aged. She just had something to drink, when a man called for her. He just popped his head in the door and retired immediately afterwards. He had on a little skull cap, and was, as far as I could see, without a coat. But he gave me no opportunity of seeing him. I think, however, I should know the face again, and I think I would also know the woman. The description of the woman corresponds to a certain extent, especially with regard to age, hair, and clothing, with that of the victim of to-day."

I'm pretty sure there's a story somewhere (can't seem to find it now) where McKenna is arrested but the witnesses failed to identify him either as the man seen with Annie in the one/three/ten Bells, or at Mrs Fiddymont's place.

[Harry the Hawker]

Oi Annie!

.. and local weirdo Edward McKenna (who wore a skull cap, just like the person who stuck his head around the Ten Bells door at 5am and supposedly called Annie Chapman outside).

I've never heard the story about someone calling Annie from the Ten Bells before - are there any sources for it?

Cheers!
Harry

[Harry D]

It seems Mrs Fiidymont's place seemed to attract suspicious sorts...

Echo 10th Nov 1888

"Another man was also detained during the day at Commercial-street on account of his suspicious movements. A man named Peter Maguire says that about eleven o'clock on Saturday night he was drinking at the public-house kept by Mrs. Fiddymont, in Brushfield-street, which is known as the "Clean House," when he noticed a man talking very earnestly to a young woman. He asked her to accompany him up a neighbouring court, but she refused, and afterwards left the bar. Maguire followed the man, who, noticing this, commenced running. He ran into Spitalfields Market, Maguire following all the while. The man then stopped, went up a court, and took off a pair of gloves he was wearing and put on another pair. By a roundabout route he proceeded into Shoreditch and got into a bus, which Maguire still followed. A policeman was asked by Maguire to stop this bus, but it is said he refused, and Maguire continued his pursuit until he met another constable, who at once stopped the vehicle. The man was inside, bundled up in a corner. Maguire explained his suspicions, and the man was taken to Commercial-street Station, where he was detained pending inquiries. These are only two evidences - and there are many others - that in the present state of public excitement in the Whitechapel district the safety - or at any rate the liberty- of no man who acts in the least degree incautiously is safe."

Very interesting! Is this story corroborated anywhere else? I love these little tidbits in the press about potential suspects. Wouldn't be surprised if the real killer was hidden in there somewhere.

[Mayerling]

Hi. Joshua,

Interesting detail about the man removing his gloves and putting on another pair... I wonder if the first pair had blood on them?

Had to be traces of blood. This is 1888, and Britain won't start using fingerprinting until 1905, so he would not have worried about that. It also stands to reason he would not care about the issue of DNA analysis at all before the 1960s (and actually that is a bit too early).

Jeff

[Pcdunn]

Hi. Joshua,

Interesting detail about the man removing his gloves and putting on another pair... I wonder if the first pair had blood on them?

[Joshua Rogan]

It seems Mrs Fiidymont's place seemed to attract suspicious sorts...

Echo 10th Nov 1888

"Another man was also detained during the day at Commercial-street on account of his suspicious movements. A man named Peter Maguire says that about eleven o'clock on Saturday night he was drinking at the public-house kept by Mrs. Fiddymont, in Brushfield-street, which is known as the "Clean House," when he noticed a man talking very earnestly to a young woman. He asked her to accompany him up a neighbouring court, but she refused, and afterwards left the bar. Maguire followed the man, who, noticing this, commenced running. He ran into Spitalfields Market, Maguire following all the while. The man then stopped, went up a court, and took off a pair of gloves he was wearing and put on another pair. By a roundabout route he proceeded into Shoreditch and got into a bus, which Maguire still followed. A policeman was asked by Maguire to stop this bus, but it is said he refused, and Maguire continued his pursuit until he met another constable, who at once stopped the vehicle. The man was inside, bundled up in a corner. Maguire explained his suspicions, and the man was taken to Commercial-street Station, where he was detained pending inquiries. These are only two evidences - and there are many others - that in the present state of public excitement in the Whitechapel district the safety - or at any rate the liberty- of no man who acts in the least degree incautiously is safe."

[Batman]

In population genetics the variation between groups is greater than the variation within groups.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_eRtjgKlt8s

[Rosella]

Wasn't Reg Christie a ginger? I read a report years ago that the red hair gene was dying out among the general population even in places like Ireland, which will be a great shame.

Was Piggot yet another ginger? Abberline seemed to think he was likely as the customer Mrs Fiddymont saw, but she wasn't able to identify him.

[pinkmoon]

Hello Damaso. Mrs. Fiddymont's testimony is not as important as her male friend's. He gave a very accurate description of the man with ginger coloured hair and his peculiar gait and crazed eyes.

Is it credible that the killer should be in a pub right after the killing? Well, certainly NOT if he is a cunning sexual serial killer. It's absurd. But what if he is just a lunatic?

Cheers.
LC

Van Gogh!!!!

[Batman]

When it comes down to it, a genetic stroke of non conspicuousness can become a stereotype.

[RockySullivan]

Can't believe you people are down on the poor Gingers...

Has a ginger ever been tried and convicted of serial killings?

I know of none....

What are the percentages of Gingers in the population? How bout Whitechapel 1888? What is the likelihood the perp is a ginger, all things being equal?

Ginger's are nice people, I don't think they have it in their DNA....

Nah, I'm sticking with the maniacal Jew theory...dark and sinister...


Greg

Ireland & Scotland have the highest percentage of red haired. 10% so I imagine London had a good amount of ginger

[The Good Michael]

Greg,

That Jew in the picture is a ginger. Plenty of Jewish gingers and blonds especially since so many Jews are/were of non-semitic stock.

Mike

[GregBaron]

Ginger here....Ginger there...

In that case Abby I'm referring back to M. Wilson..

Too many gingers lurking about near the scenes of the crime for my liking

I wonder if the dim lighting often made light browns or dirty blonds look like gingers.........after all this is before Just for Men or Lady Clairol and we're not in Belfast.....



Greg

[Abby Normal]

Can't believe you people are down on the poor Gingers...

Has a ginger ever been tried and convicted of serial killings?

I know of none....

What are the percentages of Gingers in the population? How bout Whitechapel 1888? What is the likelihood the perp is a ginger, all things being equal?

Ginger's are nice people, I don't think they have it in their DNA....

Nah, I'm sticking with the maniacal Jew theory...dark and sinister...


Greg

well Gerry Brudos for one.

despite percentages, there seem to many around! and blotchy was (one of) the last to be seen with Mary, who was also a ginger.

BTW, Jews can be gingers too!