Mulshaw on balance

[DVV]

Why would Mulshaw lie ?
No reason.
So somebody truly said (light-heartedly) : "Hey, I believe somebody has been murdered...etc"
Could he be a mere passer-by (saying so on Aug 31) ?
On balance I don't think he could.

[Mr Lucky]

Hi DVV

I don't think Mulshaw is lying, I believe he is mistaken as to the time of the incident, stating the man spoke to him at 20 to five, if this was the correct time then the body would have left Bucks Row by then. Yet Mulshaw sees the body being placed on the Ambulance. Also the man who spoke is 'another man' according to Mulshaw.


So, the man who spoke to him is probably one of the slaughter men, Mumford or most likely Brittain ( not Tomkins who ran ahead, Mumford followed 'directly' and Brittain around 5 mins later. )

Just my opinion of course.

[Mr Lucky]

Sorry, I killed your thread DVV!

If you don’t mind me asking, what about the big question regarding someone lying on Winthrop st that night? Never mind Mr ‘Watchman, old man’ what about police-constable two?

‘<Mulshaw> you don’t see a policeman often in that quarter. I think I saw two that night.
Police-constable Niel(sic) stood up, and witness identified him as one of the constables who was patrolling his beat that night.
A juror- How often do the constables pass round ?
Witness- about once in two hours, I should think. ’ The Morning Post 18th Sept. 1888

So who’s the other mystery constable mentioned by Mulshaw? Thain, Mizen or maybe its Sg Kirby or possibly even the semi-mythical PC Cartwright? Or does he just mean a policeman from an earlier shift?

Thain was at the coroners at that time but didn’t stand up, or a least this wasn’t noted by the press if he did. But he had been to the nearby slaughter house to pick up his cape that night.

And if between the two constables Mulshaw has seen on this particular beat, he only gets to see one every two hours, what is going on? Apparently Neil’s beat can be done in 12 minutes at top speed, though 30 was more likely. Where was he the rest of the time? Or is someone mistaken…? Perhaps Mulshaw missed Neil going past for some reason?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Mr Lucky

Perhaps Mulshaw missed Neil going past for some reason?

Mulshaw admitted at the inquest that he did sometimes doze off.

[curious]

And if between the two constables Mulshaw has seen on this particular beat, he only gets to see one every two hours, what is going on? Apparently Neil’s beat can be done in 12 minutes at top speed, though 30 was more likely. Where was he the rest of the time? Or is someone mistaken…? Perhaps Mulshaw missed Neil going past for some reason?

Perhaps something that is repeated regularly, you don't even notice all the time.

My childhood home was near a railroad. We all got so we didn't even notice them and likely could not have told you the last time one came by. At one time we probably knew how many a day and the regular times, but would not have taken note of each one every day after we became accustomed to them. Now, a particularly long freight train would occasionally catch our attention.

If Mulshaw was going about his regular business and the beat cops going about theirs, would Mulshaw have necessarily mentally noted each time? It was the cop's job to be aware, but not necessarily Mulshaw who was free to doze on the job.

[Wickerman]

Apparently Neil’s beat can be done in 12 minutes at top speed, though 30 was more likely. Where was he the rest of the time? Or is someone mistaken…? Perhaps Mulshaw missed Neil going past for some reason?

I don't recall precisely but, Mulshaw was on Winthrop St., did either Neil or Thain say Winthrop St. was on their beat?

Regards, Jon S.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jon,

Mulshaw was on Winthrop Street.

Winthrop Street was on PC Neil's beat.

PC Neil should have seen Mulshaw every thirty minutes.

Regards,

Simon

[Mr Lucky]

Mulshaw admitted at the inquest that he did sometimes doze off.

Hi Jon

Yes, Mulshaw nodding off could be the reason for him missing a PC going passed once or twice.

If Mulshaw was going about his regular business and the beat cops going about theirs, would Mulshaw have necessarily mentally noted each time? It was the cop's job to be aware, but not necessarily Mulshaw who was free to doze on the job.

Hi Curious

Yes, Mulshaw may have had a snooze, but I don't think he was really free to do this, he was after all supposed to be a watchman.

Mulshaw was there for 'Thirteen long hours' so he can be expected to be awake for part of that time. Surely, he can't be asleep for more than 8 hours anyway! So he still seems to suggest that the beat policeman was only there every two hours or so.

I don't recall precisely but, Mulshaw was on Winthrop St., did either Neil or Thain say Winthrop St. was on their beat?

Regards, Jon S.

Hi Jon

Thain said at inquest the closest his beat came to the murder scene was Brady Street. Also, I think Spratling (could have been Helson) said at the second day of inquest the nearest other beat was Brady Street (some press reports have this down as Praed Street)

Neil didn't seem to say anything but he stood up and was identified by Mulshaw as one of the constables he saw that night.

Also Thrain mentions a 'brother constable' who took his cape to Barber's Yard, but it isn't clear who he means by this.

Thanks to you all, Pete