Choosing which witnesses to believe

[The Good Michael]

The mere fact that hutch presented his descriptions of the interactions between himself,mary and A-man in "script" form,i.e. as direct quotes, complete with stage direction- indicates a fabrication. Who remembers exact things that were said three days later and presents them to police like that. Why would he even take note of such innocuous details?

We see the same exact thing in inquest testimony several days after the event as well where people give a lot of details as if they've memorized what they've seen or believed they've seen. They too are under stage direction as they've obviously given identical statements prior to being pulled into the inquests. Does this make them all liars?

Mike

[Sally]

In Swansons report on the Chapman murder he as good as rules out the evidence of Cadosch and the witness who apparently saw Chapman talking to a man. Swanson relies on the doctors evidence which suggests she was killed up to two hours before these witnesses came into the picture.

Hi Trevor

That would seem to be more a case of concluding the witness testimony to be irrelevant than of the witnesses being unreliable per se.

[Bridewell]

Just as an idle speculation on the subject of witness reliability:

If Cadosch's operation caused him to have to go into the yard twice in quick succession in the morning, how often did he have to make the same trip during the night I wonder?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Sally]

Just as an idle speculation on the subject of witness reliability:

If Cadosch's operation caused him to have to go into the yard twice in quick succession in the morning, how often did he have to make the same trip during the night I wonder?

Regards, Bridewell.

I also wondered about that. Did he in fact have an operation though?

Speaking of Cadosch, I wonder how he managed to be bigamously married in a Catholic church when his first and legal marriage was in an Anglican church? He could have converted, of course - or...?

[Rubyretro]

I'm sure that's true, Curious. I was generalising, and didn't mean to imply that all journalists habitually resort to invention to sell papers - I'm sure that many maintain a high degree of integrity. It's like any other profession though, populated with many different attitudes and standards.

I agree, Sally...

Out of interest, here's a personal anecdote :

During the Falklands war, I had a good friend who worked for The Sun newspaper.

She told me that the journalists went to the secretaries and asked them to describe how they would be feeling if their husbands or boyfriends had just been wounded or killed -they then invented witnesses and put the secretaries' words into their mouths.

I have no doubt that they added a line such as 'all names have been changed to protect the privacy of the people concerned'

[Errata]

Just as an idle speculation on the subject of witness reliability:

If Cadosch's operation caused him to have to go into the yard twice in quick succession in the morning, how often did he have to make the same trip during the night I wonder?

Regards, Bridewell.

Not to be disgusting or anything, but it is not an unusual morning phenomenon. An urgent need to urinate upon waking, and then a few minutes later the bowels start... asserting themselves. The body doesn't always organize itself for efficiency.

[Bridewell]

Cadosch

I also wondered about that. Did he in fact have an operation though?

We only have his word for it.

Speaking of Cadosch, I wonder how he managed to be bigamously married in a Catholic church when his first and legal marriage was in an Anglican church? He could have converted, of course - or...?

I suspect that his bride was Catholic. If he was prepared to lie about his age and his bachelor status, I can't see that concealing a Protestant background would pose much of a moral dilemma.

I should probably start a new Cadosch thread for the benefit of those who don't subscribe.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Sally]

Hi Colin

We only have his word for it.

Yes, so it appears..

I suspect that his bride was Catholic. If he was prepared to lie about his age and his bachelor status, I can't see that concealing a Protestant background would pose much of a moral dilemma.

Well, he entered into the marriage under false pretences, so he may well have hidden a Protestant background.

I should probably start a new Cadosch thread for the benefit of those who don't subscribe.

I think that's a good idea

[Bridewell]

Evenin' All.

Rather than keep banging on about Cadosch on this thread, I've started another entitled 'Albert Cadosch. A Secret Life'.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Sally]

During the Falklands war, I had a good friend who worked for The Sun newspaper.

She told me that the journalists went to the secretaries and asked them to describe how they would be feeling if their husbands or boyfriends had just been wounded or killed -they then invented witnesses and put the secretaries' words into their mouths.

I have no doubt that they added a line such as 'all names have been changed to protect the privacy of the people concerned'

An interesting story which illustrates that the practice of witness fabrication is a reality in modern mainstream reporting. I see no reason to doubt that it also went on in 1888.

[Wickerman]

The mere fact that hutch presented his descriptions of the interactions between himself,mary and A-man in "script" form,i.e. as direct quotes, complete with stage direction- indicates a fabrication.

So now Hutchinson is a script writer and stage director, thankyou, at last we are putting skin on the bones.

Who remembers exact things that were said three days later and presents them to police like that.

It is a well known fact that only liars need good memories, the truth will always just roll off the tongue.

Why would he even take note of such innocuous details?

He told you why...

And yet this paragon of perception is not aware of Mary's death until 3 days later.

Says who?

Regards, Jon S.

[Abby Normal]

We see the same exact thing in inquest testimony several days after the event as well where people give a lot of details as if they've memorized what they've seen or believed they've seen. They too are under stage direction as they've obviously given identical statements prior to being pulled into the inquests. Does this make them all liars?

Mike

No because theirs is not to the extent of Hutch-not even close.

[Abby Normal]

So now Hutchinson is a script writer and stage director, thankyou, at last we are putting skin on the bones.



It is a well known fact that only liars need good memories, the truth will always just roll off the tongue.



He told you why...



Says who?

Regards, Jon S.

It is a well known fact that only liars need good memories

Hutch had an extrordinary memory accordng to his lies then. His truth-not so much.

[Wickerman]

Hutch had an extrordinary memory accordng to his lies then.

Just humour me Abby, name one of his lies.

Regards, Jon S.

[Bridewell]

Bemused

The mere fact that hutch presented his descriptions of the interactions between himself,mary and A-man in "script" form,i.e. as direct quotes, complete with stage direction- indicates a fabrication.

Hi Abby,

Having spent 37 years of my life both taking and reading witness statements, I'd be interested to learn why the process outlined above 'indicates a fabrication'.
I'd have thought it more likely to be an indication of the idiosyncratic style of the statement-taker, than a clear sign of mendacity on the part of the witness.

Regards, Bridewell.