The name "Lawende"

[Damaso Marte]

One of the fun things about the internet (and about books) is that you can learn so many things without learning anything about how those things are pronounced.

Joseph Lawende, for me, is one of those things. He's such an important figure, and I have no idea how to say his name.

He was born in Warsaw, presumably his name is either German/Yiddish or Polish. As a speaker of Polish, I am fairly confident that Lawende is not a Polish name. In either case, in all three of those languages it would be pronounced fairly similarly: with the w as a v.

I can't find much of a record of Lawende as a last name, though, so I can't confirm that it is German/Yiddish. And of course, who knows how he himself would have pronounced it after moving to England, or how Englishmen would pronounce that name.

How do people here personally say it? How is it rendered by the tour guides on the various Ripper tours etc?

[Monty]

Hi Damaso,

There is a contemporary report where Lewande was named as a Mr Lavender. This is obviously how the same name (as its an inquest report) sounder to the newsmans ears.

So I take it that its pronounce La-vander.

Monty

[Damaso Marte]

Well, that was easy.

That leaves the question of etymology. What does it mean, and where does it come from?

"Lawenda" is the Polish word for lavender; perhaps it's a corruption and some ancestor of his grew or sold lavender. I would love to find somebody else with that last name, who isn't related to our witness.

[Bridewell]

Lawende

One of the fun things about the internet (and about books) is that you can learn so many things without learning anything about how those things are pronounced.

Joseph Lawende, for me, is one of those things. He's such an important figure, and I have no idea how to say his name.

He was born in Warsaw, presumably his name is either German/Yiddish or Polish. As a speaker of Polish, I am fairly confident that Lawende is not a Polish name. In either case, in all three of those languages it would be pronounced fairly similarly: with the w as a v.

I can't find much of a record of Lawende as a last name, though, so I can't confirm that it is German/Yiddish. And of course, who knows how he himself would have pronounced it after moving to England, or how Englishmen would pronounce that name.

How do people here personally say it? How is it rendered by the tour guides on the various Ripper tours etc?

Hi Monty,

I knew my degree in German Studies would come in useful one day! I suspect Lawende is of German or Yiddish origin. If German, it should be pronounced in much the same way as we British pronounce Lavender, but with the emphasis on the second syllable as opposed to the first.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Bridewell]

Sorry, Damaso,

Your second post wasn't up when I started my last. If it's of Polish origin, my thinking may be well off. The German word for 'lavender' is 'Lavendel' which is probably from the same source as the Polish, and would be pronounced 'laffendle', again with the emphasis on the 2nd syllable.

Welcome to the boards btw.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Damaso Marte]

Bridewell,

My initial suspicion was German/Yiddish as well. It was not until I looked up the German and Polish words for lavender that I began to suspect Polish.

[SarahLee]

I would love to find somebody else with that last name, who isn't related to our witness.

Hi Damaso,

I went to school with a John Lavender, but since that was more than 20 years ago and we didn't keep in touch I'm afraid that's no help whatsoever in terms of being able to ask him what he knows about the origin of his name.

I wonder if we're a little off track with the Lavender farming / selling though.
The English name Lavender is of French origin, and is related to the occupation of launderers - amongst the earliest recorded spellings is "Lauender", which is the closest to Lawende that I could find. Perhaps it has its origins in a German / Polish corruption of that.

Source here : http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....e/lavender.htm

[Archaic]

Hi everyone.

The French verb "laver" means "to wash". It's pronounced "lah-vay".

I suspect that the French, German, and Polish words are all related and come from the Latin word "lavre", meaning "to wash."

I think SarahLee is probably right and the name "Lawende" was derived from the occupation of laundering or washing.

I thought "Lawende" was pronounced more like "La-vahn-duh", but maybe the last syllable was pronounced more like "der" as Monty suggests.

Best regards,
Archaic

[RivkahChaya]

I wondered if it was one of the many variations on Lawen/Lewin/Laven that also gives us Levinsky, and Levinsohn, or Levinson, The first also sometimes spelled Lewinsky or Lewinski.

The root of all of the is Levy/Levi, which is both a first name and a last name among Jews, and as a last name, means a person is descended from the Levitical, or priestly tribe, supposedly.

The other names sound closer, but are not specifically Jewish names-- not that he has to have a specifically name, just saying.

At any rate, if he comes from Poland, the "W" is pronounced like a "V."

I can tell you though, that a lot of people, after a couple of years of trying to correct people on their name pronunciation, when they had a name like Lewin, or Czerny, gave up, and either allowed people to use Anglicized pronounciations, or changed the spellings.

In the US, we have Lewins who still pronounce the name "Levin," others who just pronounce the "W" the way English speakers do, and their cousins, who spell the name "Levin." Some of the Czernys spell their name Cherny, and others just answer to whatever people mumble out, since few Americans get "cz" right. It's probably what pushed Ted Kaczynski round the bend.

My point it, that there isn't going to be a correct pronunciation. It's whatever was acceptable to Mr. Lawende.

Incidentally, Polish words do not typically end in "E." Only a few neuter nouns that end in "ie," and some masculine nouns in the locative case, so the name is German/Yiddish in origin, even though the spelling might be Polish. My name, for example, is Hebrew in origin, but the spelling is English.