Eddowe's Killer and Witnesses....

[Fleetwood Mac]

Wanted to put this one up for discussion:

Levy did indeed estimate about 5'3.

However, Swanson's report says something like: "the description given from the two men coming out of the club is 5'7/5'8".

This begs the question: which two men?

Levy said 5'3; Lawende said 5'7/5'8; Harris didn't give a height (or at least he didn't at the inquest) and said: "the other two saw no more than me".

So, which two men agreed upon 5'7/5'8 as per Swanson's report?

There are a few possibilities here:

1) The two men didn't agree and it follows thus Swanson doctored the report.

2) The two men did agree and it follows thus Levy was lying at the inquest for reasons unknown to us.

3) The two men are not Lawende, Levy or Harris, i.e. Swanson is speaking of two other witnesses.

It also begs the question: why only two men and not all three? Harris claims they saw no more than him, so if they were able to estimate a height then why not Harris?

Perhaps the easiest solution, and the only one in my mind that enables us to tally the witness statements is that two men did agree, i.e. Harris and Lawende, and Levy disagreed with them. Perhaps Harris wasn't called to the inquest because he would simply repeat Lawende's testimony.

Any thoughts?

[Sister Hyde]

I would go for number 2. Levy's behaviour was suspicious anyway, so him lying at the inquest wouldn't be a surprise.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I would go for number 2. Levy's behaviour was suspicious anyway, so him lying at the inquest wouldn't be a surprise.

Only suspicious according to a journalist, and I suppose it's a case of guesswork, and one man's suspicious is another man's straight down the line. You could argue that said journalist had a vested interest in peddling sensationalism.

Seems to me that Harris and Lawende were Swanson's men

[Sister Hyde]

Only suspicious according to a journalist, and I suppose it's a case of guesswork, and one man's suspicious is another man's straight down the line. You could argue that said journalist had a vested interest in peddling sensationalism.

Seems to me that Harris and Lawende were Swanson's men

Could be, but he still was very reluctant compared to the 2 other men, and if Lawende could have a better sight than the Levy and Harris, then why would Levy have seen differently than his companions. anyway if Levy's statement was different from the other two, than the other 2 are probably Swanson's men indeed.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Could be, but he still was very reluctant compared to the 2 other men, and if Lawende could have a better sight than the Levy and Harris, then why would Levy have seen differently than his companions. anyway if Levy's statement was different from the other two, than the other 2 are probably Swanson's men indeed.

Of the three, Lawende seems to be the odd one out (not Levy).

[Sister Hyde]

Of the three, Lawende seems to be the odd one out (not Levy).

ok but if the 3 of them were "good pals" or at least good acquaintances, then it put doubt on the whole trio. I think Lawende handled it better than the other, so I will not contradict you there, maybe he just had better self control.

[Fleetwood Mac]

ok but if the 3 of them were "good pals" or at least good acquaintances, then it put doubt on the whole trio. I think Lawende handled it better than the other, so I will not contradict you there, maybe he just had better self control.

Not necessarily.

If they were mates and wanted nothing to do with it, then the best bet was to say nothing.

At the inquest, Levy states he took no notice of them - sounds fair enough to me - which may account for Levy's height being at odds with Lawende's.

[Sister Hyde]

Not necessarily.

If they were mates and wanted nothing to do with it, then the best bet was to say nothing.

At the inquest, Levy states he took no notice of them - sounds fair enough to me - which may account for Levy's height being at odds with Lawende's.

But they did say things, crontradictory things whereas the 3 were together and saw the same thing although some watched with more or less attention, and behaved different ways.
Now who's the odd one? I think the answers can differ according to all the diffrent points of view on the case. But if one of them (including Lawende), actually happened to know the man, then it's quite possible that the others knew the man too, even if only by sight. If only Harris had given his version it would be so much easier. I'm sorry I can't give you a fully settled opinion on that matter, the datas are just too "precarious" for me to be convinced by ONE possibility.

[Fleetwood Mac]

But they did say things, crontradictory things whereas the 3 were together and saw the same thing although some watched with more or less attention, and behaved different ways.
Now who's the odd one? I think the answers can differ according to all the diffrent points of view on the case. But if one of them (including Lawende), actually happened to know the man, then it's quite possible that the others knew the man too, even if only by sight. If only Harris had given his version it would be so much easier. I'm sorry I can't give you a fully settled opinion on that matter, the datas are just too "precarious" for me to be convinced by ONE possibility.

Fair enough, but Lawende remains the odd one out in that he furnishes the police with a good description, whereas the other two don't take a great deal of notice and consequently don't have much to offer.

[Sister Hyde]

Fair enough, but Lawende remains the odd one out in that he furnishes the police with a good description, whereas the other two don't take a great deal of notice and consequently don't have much to offer.

True, they don't have so much to offer, or don't want to offer much. And I think I can understnd your point of view, you suspect Lawende was furnishing more descriptions to the police in order to send the police on a wrong or "stagnant" track?

[Fleetwood Mac]

True, they don't have so much to offer, or don't want to offer much. And I think I can understnd your point of view, you suspect Lawende was furnishing more descriptions to the police in order to send the police on a wrong or "stagnant" track?

Not at all.

Lawende is as straight up a witness as you're going to get. Just a fella on his way home, who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

You or I could pick holes in it, though. There is the odd inconsistency.

Don't want to offer much? Levy acknowledged he saw the couple during house to house enquiries - he could have said he saw nothing (had he been determined to offer nothing).

Of all three witness statements, it is Lawende's good description followed by: "I doubt I'd recognise him again" which seems the most strange.

[Sister Hyde]

Of all three witness statements, it is Lawende's good description followed by: "I doubt I'd recognise him again" which seems the most strange.

Yes it is strange, but how about Levy's behaviour at the inquest then?

"[Coroner] Your fear was rather about yourself? - Not exactly. (Laughter.)"

[Fleetwood Mac]

Yes it is strange, but how about Levy's behaviour at the inquest then?

"[Coroner] Your fear was rather about yourself? - Not exactly. (Laughter.)"

Ahhhh could mean several things.

Out of interest, what do you think it means?

[Sister Hyde]

Ahhhh could mean several things.

Out of interest, what do you think it means?

it could mean several things, of course my reaction would have been "why's that so funny??" the thing is levy was obviously the one saying he didn't like seeing such characters about in the first place, then why such an odd reaction? it's not the answer itself that is so weird, but the way it's uttered. and it leaves a lot of "?"... wasn't he afraid because he knew the man? or because he was a friend? or because he thought the man himself couldn't never recognize him if he ever crossed his way again? or just a tasteless joke like " why shoukd I be afraid? do I look like a prostitute?" Once again I'm not really apt to say what it meant really.

[Fleetwood Mac]

it could mean several things, of course my reaction would have been "why's that so funny??" the thing is levy was obviously the one saying he didn't like seeing such characters about in the first place, then why such an odd reaction? it's not the answer itself that is so weird, but the way it's uttered. and it leaves a lot of "?"... wasn't he afraid because he knew the man? or because he was a friend? or because he thought the man himself couldn't never recognize him if he ever crossed his way again? or just a tasteless joke like " why shoukd I be afraid? do I look like a prostitute?" Once again I'm not really apt to say what it meant really.

And I suppose that's the problem with pursuing Levy.