Thomas Bowyer

[lynn cates]

John

Hello Chris and Debs. Both the November 10 accounts give him as "John Bowyer." How firm is his name?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Chris and Debs. Both the November 10 accounts give him as "John Bowyer." How firm is his name?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,
Chris S mentioned on JTRforums he could be under any name on the census, different newspapers name him as John, Harry and Thomas, although he appears at the inquest as Thomas.

He might also appear as Bower, Bawyer or Boyer even?

I did notice a T Bower living at a lodging house in Brick Lane in 1881, he was a groom, born in Essex. I haven't followed him up though.

[Debra A]

I did notice a T Bower living at a lodging house in Brick Lane in 1881, he was a groom, born in Essex. I haven't followed him up though.

That should be born City of London.

[Chris]

If anyone has a full subscription to Findmypast, it may be worth checking the section on "British Army Service Records 1760-1913" (i.e. Chelsea Pensioners). This brings up a number of Thomas Bowyers with plausible ages (and also some Johns and Henrys). Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be possible to limit searches by the date of discharge.

[lynn cates]

names

Hello Debs and Chris. Besides Thomas and John, I have tried Henry (Harry).

I take it that there are no family details--wife, children, etc?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs and Chris. Besides Thomas and John, I have tried Henry (Harry).

I take it that there are no family details--wife, children, etc?

Cheers.
LC

No, sadly, that would make it all far too easy, Lynn.
That's what I was trying to say in an earlier post, there isn't much to go on in the official records and newspapers that mention Bowyer, so making a positive ID in the census would be difficult without finding a definite a link to Spitalfields, McCarthy, the army, India etc.

I noticed this in the description of the British Army service records, just mentioned by Chris, this confirms what I was saying about not being able to determine his age just by him being an army pensioner.

soldiers were eligible for a pension after 12 years of service, and earlier if they were wounded, so relatively young men could be pensioned out.

[lynn cates]

difficult

Hello Debs. This calls to mind the old saying:

"We the unwilling, led by the unqualified, have been doing the unbelievable for so long, with so little, that we now attempt the impossible with nothing." (heh-heh)

Well, let's rehearse a few facts.

1. The sketch looks to place him between 40 and 60.

2. A newspaper account refers to "young."

3. 12 years military service is quite helpful. Once we ascertain the earliest possible subscription age, we merely add 12, and we have one of our termini.

Right. Back to work.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

baptism

Hello Debs and Chris. I found a baptismal record for a Thomas James Bowyer, born 1833. It is #1862, second entry right hand column. The church is in Spitalfields. This "feels" a bit closer than the older chap from Surrey in watch related labour.

Perhaps the middle name could provide a lead?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Lynn,

That looks interesting. Were you able to find the same man in any census entries?

Just going back to the British Army records on Find My Past, mentioned by Chris in an earlier post. I was interested in another army record which I have been wanting to locate for a while, so purchased credits which allowed me to view two full entries.

I downloaded the one I wanted (which I was so pleased to find!) and then took pot luck and looked at one of the entries for a Thomas Bowyer b c 1848 who enlisted in London, mentioned earlier. I couldn't see any connections to Spitalfields or Whitechapel mentioned in his records, he was born in Clapham and went to live in Stonehouse after being discharged. He had been posted to India and Afghanistan throughout the 60s and 70s though. It doesn't appear to be the right Thomas Bowyer, but that's one off the list at least!

If I didn't already have a subscription to Ancestry I might consider going back to FMP.

There is also the possibility that the records of Mary Jane Kelly's brother, Henry (if he existed) might be in that database too?

[lynn cates]

infant death

Hello Debs. Good question. I could not find a trace of this chap elsewhere. Perhaps a case of infant death?

Well, back to the old drawing board, as they say.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Nice find, Lynn.

From the Baptism record I took the parents, Robert and Jane.

Robert Bowyer was born in 1792
Married Jane Spurging on 12th March 1825 at St Dunstan`s, Stepney
In 1841 he is a publican and they are living at the Crown, 4 Grey Eagle St, Spitalfields. He dies in 1844 but Jane continues running the pub until at least 1856.
They had two Thomas Bowyer`s:
On Dec 25th 1829 Thomas Bowyer was born
On Aug 4th 1833 Thomas James Bowyer was born
I can`t see anything that shows when they died.


Jon

[lynn cates]

intuitions

Hello Jon. Thanks. That is helpful.

I wonder why the paper report used John? And whence the Harry business? My intuitions say, "Look for John or Henry in conjunction with Thomas."

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

deceased James Bowyer

Hello Debs, Chris and Jon. I have found a deceased James T. Bowyer. He seems to be residing in Whitechapel at the time, 1880. Perhaps this is he with names turned about?

If this, however, is the same chap as above (and his birth date IS 1833), then he is not the proper Bowyer for us.

Cheers.
LC

[Chris]

Just going back to the British Army records on Find My Past, mentioned by Chris in an earlier post. I was interested in another army record which I have been wanting to locate for a while, so purchased credits which allowed me to view two full entries.

I downloaded the one I wanted (which I was so pleased to find!) and then took pot luck and looked at one of the entries for a Thomas Bowyer b c 1848 who enlisted in London, mentioned earlier. I couldn't see any connections to Spitalfields or Whitechapel mentioned in his records, he was born in Clapham and went to live in Stonehouse after being discharged. He had been posted to India and Afghanistan throughout the 60s and 70s though. It doesn't appear to be the right Thomas Bowyer, but that's one off the list at least!

I was at Kew at the weekend and had a look at the documents for soldiers named Thomas Bowyer and Henry/Harry Bowyer.

As far as the Thomases go, for some reason there were two sets of records for the man born in Clapham, but of the other men all either were still serving in 1888 or enlisted after 1888 - except a Thomas Richard Bowyer who had been born c. 1835 in Dublin and was discharged in 1866. His intended place of residence was Marylebone, but he had not been in India, so in one important respect he doesn't fit. I tried for a little while to find some record of him after 1866, but without success.

Similarly, for the Henrys, all were discharged after 1888, except a Henry Bowyer who had been born in Winkfield, Windsor, Berkshire c. 1851 and discharged in 1877 because he was suffering from palpitations. I couldn't see any details of where he had served. But he seems to be the same man who was living with a wife Rebecca and two small children at New Windsor in 1881, and also the same whose death at the age of 32 was registered at Windsor in the second quarter of 1883. If so, he is obviously ruled out.

Going back to the Thomas Bowyer Debs looked at, I wonder whether he is worth further consideration. Although on one set of papers his intended place of residence is given as Stonehouse, Plymouth, on the other it seems to be "Not known."

He has a wife Jane Ann. FreeBMD contains no death registration for a Jane Ann Bowyer, but does have a marriage for one, in the first quarter of 1894, at East Stonehouse, Devon. If this is the remarriage of his widow, then he must have died between his discharge in 1886 and 1894. But the only death of a Thomas Bowyer in Devon or Cornwall during this period is at Chard (not very near Plymouth) in 1888, and the age is 3 years more than it should be for this Thomas. On the other hand, there is a death registered at Wandsworth in the first quarter of 1889, which is only 1 year away from the right age. Wandsworth included the parish of his birth, Clapham, and the army papers indicated that his father Thomas was still living there at the time of his discharge.

The upshot of all this is that this Thomas Bowyer just may have gone to London after being discharged in 1886. At any rate he was probably the only surviving army pensioner named Thomas or Henry Bowyer in 1888 who had served in India. Jane Ann's census records for 1891+ might well clarify things, but I've been unable to find anything, either in 1891 under the surname Bowyer, or later under either of her possible married names - Matthews and Perton.

[Debra A]

Thanks, Chris. I actually thought, a couple of days after I posted this, that I might have been a bit premature in writing this particular Thomas Bowyer off. Thanks for the further information. By any chance, did you manage to decipher the reason for his discharge on medical grounds? I know his having Bright's disease was mentioned in the last two entries in his medical history but I couldn't make out the last line.

The branding or tattooing of deserters with a letter 'D', as this particular Thomas Bowyer was marked, was a new one on me.