Jack and the Grapestalk

[Simon Wood]

Hi Debra,

You're right. As we comprehend it, the story of Le Grand's involvement in the aftermath of the Stride murder makes absolutely no sense.

I'm not convinced that the two men Stephen White encountered in Berner Street on 4th October were Le Grand and Batchelor. How did a wanted ticket-of-leave man have access to the upper echelons at Scotland Yard? Talk about walking into the lion's den.

During the same period Michael Ostrog was a wanted ticket-of-leave man whose details appeared in the Police Gazette. He was in a Paris prison at the time of the WM, but despite his iron-clad alibi managed to find his way into Macnaghten's Memorandum.

Why didn't Macnaghten suspect Le Grand?

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

for hire

Hello Debra and Simon. Is there any possibility that Le Grand would have accepted a hefty commission by someone to obfuscate the events revolving around Berner st?

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

I could buy that.

What's your gut instinct as to the identity of that someone?

Regards,

Simon

[Debra A]

.

I'm not convinced that the two men Stephen White encountered in Berner Street on 4th October were Le Grand and Batchelor. How did a wanted ticket-of-leave man have access to the upper echelons at Scotland Yard? Talk about walking into the lion's den.

During the same period Michael Ostrog was a wanted ticket-of-leave man whose details appeared in the Police Gazette. He was in a Paris prison at the time of the WM, but despite his iron-clad alibi managed to find his way into Macnaghten's Memorandum.

Why didn't Macnaghten suspect Le Grand?

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,
But Stephen White seems to have been.
He was flashed a letter headed Le Grand and co., the same heading used in letters presented at Le Grand's 1889 trial.
In fact a few things came out in 1889 that didn't in Le Grand's 1887 court appearances, police had no clue he was Christian Nelson in 1887 but by 1889 they were sure he was, even though the jury didn't agree. He'd been checked up on by 1889 seemingly.

Hi Lynn,
It depends on who you have in mind for someone I guess.

[lynn cates]

Kaufman

Hello Simon and Debra. I am trying to track down a Kaufman who used the alias Karl Morff. He was in the pay of the German secret police. He had organized an incident of provocation on the continent, but the plan backfired. The men he hired were hanged and he fled to London.

If he was behind the Berner st affair, and it backfired, he might wish to escape any implications thrown his way (by whoever bungled it). Maybe he was just being proactive.

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

In January 1888 Kaufmann [alias Carl Morff] was reported as being "an engineer, now a partner in the ‘City Club’. Police-spy in London (7 years in pay)".

In 1883 there was a Socialist "City Club" at 42 Sun Street, London EC, and in October 1888 Max Roulie and Herman Ullmitt of the "German City Club" [same address] were charged with selling tobacco and alcohol without a license. In January 1890 there were charges of illegal gambling at the "German City Club" [same address] and, in April the same year there was a serious assault on the club premises.

That's all I know. Hope it helps.

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Simon. Thanks. I had the first part but not the second.

Interesting.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

I SO wanted to believe in the grapes! Have to give way on this one though -the blood clots theory seems to fit all too well.

[Tom_Wescott]

During the same period Michael Ostrog was a wanted ticket-of-leave man whose details appeared in the Police Gazette. He was in a Paris prison at the time of the WM, but despite his iron-clad alibi managed to find his way into Macnaghten's Memorandum.

Why didn't Macnaghten suspect Le Grand?

Who do you think it was who had the knives, habitually abused women, etc. It certainly wasn't Ostrog.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[caz]

I'm wondering why we need a police conspiracy sledgehammer to crack this nut.

Why couldn't Le Grand, a career criminal, cop hater and opportunist, simply have seen in Packer the chance to make the public believe that the police were not doing their job properly and needed outside help to make the streets safe again?

The police get nothing from Packer but in no time two outsiders have him singing like a bleedin' canary. The cops, unjustly facing public humiliation, need very little excuse to send Packer packing. But he hands it to them on a plate with the mythical grapes, thus restoring the status quo and leaving Le Grand stranded, saying "Curses, foiled again", as he thinks up his next dastardly plan to send everyone on a fool's errand.

If the French Colonel was hoping to play Packer like a fiddle, he picked the wrong instrument. The tune lasted all of five minutes before hitting the bum notes.

He should have called himself Simple Simon if he killed Liz himself then coaxed the grapes from Packer to put a supposed customer in the frame. The killer would have known no grapes could have been found at the scene if he hadn't given her any in the first place.

Love,

Caz
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