Robert Lees

[Writerboy]

How is Lees looked upon now by Ripperologists? I don't mean whether or not he was genuinely seeing the Ripper, I mean whether the story alleged to have happened did happen, namely him leading the police to a house in Mayfair and years later Gull's daughter claiming she remembered this. Has this been totally discredited now?

(Not that I think Gull a serious suspect for a moment.)

[Adam Went]

Well Lees himself actually lived to be fairly old (think he died in the 1930's) so I would have thought that more would have been made of it during his own lifetime if this was indeed the case.

Based on the other actions of the police during the Ripper murders, it doesn't seem too likely - they were clearly not interested in trying any new or different technology in the search for the Ripper (fingerprinting was available in 1888, for instance) - if anything, they went backwards with house to house searches and rewards and increased street patrols, etc. So the use of a psychic was probably also out of the realm of likely options.

It's an interesting story though.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Jenni Shelden]

If i could blow my own trumpet, you might find this of use

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/ripperoo-lees.html

Jenni

[Adam Went]

Yes, I should have remembered, Jenni is our resident Lees expert, Writerboy.

Cheers,
Adam.

[Mayerling]

Yes, I should have remembered, Jenni [Shelden] is our resident Lees expert, Writerboy.

Cheers,
Adam.

Hi all,

I am coming late into this thread or any thread dealing with Robert Lees. However something has been brought to my attention recently and maybe Adam, or Jenni, or someone can either straighten this out or help me out of it.

I am a subscriber to THE SKEPTICAL INQUIRER. In the edition for May/June 2013 was a two page article by Massimo Polidoro about a new book he recommended called THE THOUGHT READER CRAZE, by Barry H. Wiley. During the first or second heyday of spiritualism, when people like Sir William Crooks and Edmund Gurney were studying it for a scientific background, certain individuals like "Sir" Washington Irving Bishop demonstrated to the public that they could trace the movements of the individual while they were either out of the room or blindfolded, and if those people hid items they could locate them. One of the people who was mentioned in the article was one Stuart C. Cumberland, whose "abilities" were shown in the House of Commons before Prime Minister Gladstone and other members. According to Polidoro Cumberland claimed he dreamed and saw the identity of Jack the Ripper.

My question: Has the name of Stuart C. Cumberland, or his claim, ever popped up in any of the literature of the case dealing with spiritualists or with Robert Lees in particular?

Jeff

[DRoy]

Jeff,

I recommend you check out the thread titled Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report under Suspects - General Discussion where TradeName has found tons of Lees articles. He may also be the best person to answer your post.

Cheers
DRoy

[dag]

Hi all,

I am coming late into this thread or any thread dealing with Robert Lees. However something has been brought to my attention recently and maybe Adam, or Jenni, or someone can either straighten this out or help me out of it.

I am a subscriber to THE SKEPTICAL INQUIRER. In the edition for May/June 2013 was a two page article by Massimo Polidoro about a new book he recommended called THE THOUGHT READER CRAZE, by Barry H. Wiley. During the first or second heyday of spiritualism, when people like Sir William Crooks and Edmund Gurney were studying it for a scientific background, certain individuals like "Sir" Washington Irving Bishop demonstrated to the public that they could trace the movements of the individual while they were either out of the room or blindfolded, and if those people hid items they could locate them. One of the people who was mentioned in the article was one Stuart C. Cumberland, whose "abilities" were shown in the House of Commons before Prime Minister Gladstone and other members. According to Polidoro Cumberland claimed he dreamed and saw the identity of Jack the Ripper.

My question: Has the name of Stuart C. Cumberland, or his claim, ever popped up in any of the literature of the case dealing with spiritualists or with Robert Lees in particular?

Jeff

Jeff

Back in 2003, Chris Scott posted a cutting from an Australian newspaper of Nov 11, 1889 which describes Cumberland's dream portrait of the Ripper. You can find it here:

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/6278.html

Unfortunately, the article is difficult to read. Chris: did you ever find time to fully decipher it?

David

[Graham]

Stuart Cumberland

Paul Feldman in Jack The Ripper - The Final Chapter has a good deal to say about Stuart Cumberland, who was the editor of a journal called "The Illustrated Mirror" and who was evidently very interested in the Whitechapel Murders and also in Florence Maybrick. Cumberland spoke more than once of his 'dream' and his 'vision' of Jack The Ripper, and who he might be. I don't know of any interest Cumberland might have had in spiritualism in general and Robert Lees in particular. Feldman seemed to think that Cumberland knew more about the Ripper crimes than he let on, and especially regarding the supposed 'diary' of Mrs Maybrick, which was apparently being touted around the sensational press at the time.

Graham

[Mayerling]

Paul Feldman in Jack The Ripper - The Final Chapter has a good deal to say about Stuart Cumberland, who was the editor of a journal called "The Illustrated Mirror" and who was evidently very interested in the Whitechapel Murders and also in Florence Maybrick. Cumberland spoke more than once of his 'dream' and his 'vision' of Jack The Ripper, and who he might be. I don't know of any interest Cumberland might have had in spiritualism in general and Robert Lees in particular. Feldman seemed to think that Cumberland knew more about the Ripper crimes than he let on, and especially regarding the supposed 'diary' of Mrs Maybrick, which was apparently being touted around the sensational press at the time.

Graham

Hi Graham, David, and DRoy,

Following DRoy's advice I went through Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report thread, and found one comment on Cumberland. It at least showed that Cumberland's claim was known. I don't know how true that vision was, but it was known.

Thanks for your other leads. I just wonder how many of these gentlemen actually did believe they saw the Ripper in visions or just claimed it "for affect".

As for the amount of work and research done on that thread by it's creator - boy he did a really fine job.

Jeff