Romford

[The Good Michael]

14 miles of pretty much flat ground would have been nothing for a young man who was used to physical labor. I got back from Sicily (which I hated for this reason) where I couldn't rent a car, and I was walking, every day, at least 10 miles up and down the side of Mount Aetna. In one week I was so fit, but it was blazing hot there and no escaping it. A fall jaunt from Romford wold have been easy breezy comparatively. That was the end of July and you all know how hot the Mediterranean is.

Mike

[Ben]

14 miles is not "nothing", especially when the alleged jaunt took place in very poor conditions in the small hours of the morning in the full expectation that the place where he usually slept would have been closed by the time he arrived home. A point that is often overlooked is that an impoverished labourer in no regular employment is hardly likely to expend crucial energy reserves when work or work-seeking would have necessitated a very early start the next day. Self-imposed unnecessary sleep deprivation was not an option he was likely to have taken.

[Ben]

There is one line of arguement about Kelly's murder that is often mentioned on these boards and annoys me greatly. That is the theory that Kelly was bedded for the night once Blotchy face left her.

I'm not sure why this "annoys" you. It is merely the evidence from the inquest, or rather the complete lack of evidence to suggest that she ventured out again. Yes, I would say it's rather unlikely that she ventured out again, given her extent of apparent intoxication at 11:45 as reported by Mary Cox, coupled with the fact that the weather was particularly poor and the client pickings would obviously have been very slim. Quite what "addiction" has to do with any of this I don't know. She wasn't going to obtain any more alcohol at that time, and the likelihood is that she assisted Blotchy with his ale pail before sinking into a drunken stupour. If she was concerned about any "serious rent arrears", she would hardly have behaved in this fashion, i.e. getting sozzled with Blotchy and singing for over an hour in her room.

[richardnunweek]

Hi.
The question always arises..'Why would Hutchinson's man flaunt his watch and chain in such a district?
I would suggest it was intentional, after he saw Mary approach him, and it would not surprise me if the watch and chain had significance in the murder of Mary Kelly.
I apologize if I am wrong , but did not Fiona Kendal , great grand-daughter of McCarthy mention on Casebook[ before leaving us] that Kelly had received a visit from a man claiming that Mary had stolen his watch, and McCarthy saw him off in his 'style''.
Question .. Was this man 'A' man?.
Did Ms Kendall actually give us a clue to who killed MJK, in his opinion, believing it was the man he saw off, and the motive being the theft of a watch, which obviously meant a lot to him...
possibility Folks..
Regards Richard.

[Ben]

I'm sorry but I don't get the point of these inane posts...

Nor do I, Beebs.

They seem to consist of several photographs of men with watch chains, the irony being that Hutchinson probably would have been required to study a photograph in order to register all that he claimed! As you rightly state, the question of why he referred to a "thick gold watch chain" should be considered before we address the "how" of it. The idea of anyone venturing into that district, at the height of the ripper scare, with his thick gold watch chain on proud display is obviously very fanciful indeed, and the chances if anyone thus adorned departing the area unmugged or unpursued by a lynch mob are very slim. I form the impression more and more that people continue to accept this nonsense out of a secret preference for a wealthy, interesting-looking ripper. It's their way of keeping the bogeyman alive.

All the best,
Ben

[Stewart P Evans]

Obviously...

Obviously Abberline didn't think that the description was 'very fanciful' as he believed it to be true and forwarded it in an official report. But then, what the hell did Abberline know?

[Stewart P Evans]

Further to my last...

Further to my last, I've obviously got my ideas on this all wrong as Abberline was actually the Ripper, which might explain a lot. I know this as the Sun newspaper has published an article today stating that some Spanish author (and handwriting expert) claims to have finally solved the mystery as the Maybrick 'diary' is in Abberline's handwriting. I knew I was missing something all these years.

[harry]

It was Hutchinson that got it all wrong.Instead of a common labourer or groom,with his stamina and recall,he could easily have made the olympics or a star of stage.

[Ben]

Absolutely, Harry.

He'd receive a thick gold medal for trumping all competition in the descriptive hurdles!

As far as Abberline is concerned, I would contend that his views on Klosowski would also qualify as "very fanciful" today, and for good reason.

[Stewart P Evans]

Obviously...

Obviously Abberline, whilst interrogating Hutchinson, was interested to know why he had taken such note of the description of the man with Kelly. Abberline noted Hutchinson's reason thus, "Also that he was surprised to see a man so well dressed in her company which caused him to watch them."

[babybird67]

Nor do I, Beebs.

They seem to consist of several photographs of men with watch chains, the irony being that Hutchinson probably would have been required to study a photograph in order to register all that he claimed! As you rightly state, the question of why he referred to a "thick gold watch chain" should be considered before we address the "how" of it. The idea of anyone venturing into that district, at the height of the ripper scare, with his thick gold watch chain on proud display is obviously very fanciful indeed, and the chances if anyone thus adorned departing the area unmugged or unpursued by a lynch mob are very slim. I form the impression more and more that people continue to accept this nonsense out of a secret preference for a wealthy, interesting-looking ripper. It's their way of keeping the bogeyman alive.

All the best,
Ben

Absolutely Benz. And then we have these photographs posted up as if they prove something important!

There! I can see that man's watch chain...you know, the man who is POSING for an AUDIENCE (the audience of the whole of posterity, because he is being PHOTOGRAPHED) - so that must prove that Hutchinson could have equally seen Astakhan's watch chain, who equally would have been displaying his wealth to impress an audience...the audience consisting of a drunken and desperate prostitute who would have needed impressing before she would have given said customer her favours! Yeah right!

Kelly would have been impressed with the sixpence she asked Hutchinson to lend her. There was no rhyme or reason to any display of wealth in Astrkhan's case. In fact it would defy the laws of logic.

[babybird67]

Obviously Abberline, whilst interrogating Hutchinson, was interested to know why he had taken such note of the description of the man with Kelly. Abberline noted Hutchinson's reason thus, "Also that he was surprised to see a man so well dressed in her company which caused him to watch them."

For forty five minutes? Most of it watching the entrance to a court, not the couple themselves?

[Stewart P Evans]

Repeat...

For forty five minutes? Most of it watching the entrance to a court, not the couple themselves?

Don't be silly. I really shouldn't have to repeat the fact that I have personally taken hundreds of witness statements. Some people are naturally more observant than others, especially if they have a particular interest in an individual.

It does not take long to note what a person is wearing and Hutchinson stated that he saw the man approach, and speak to, Kelly. He was close enough to hear her reply 'Alright.' Hutchinson stood against the lamp of the Queens Head Public House and watched him. Kelly and the man then actually walked right past (closely) to Hutchinson, against the lamp, and the man hung down his head to avoid Hutchinson's gaze. Hutchinson even stooped down to look under the brim of the man's hat at which the man 'looked stern' at him. He then watched them for about three minutes at the entrance to Miller's Court. Plenty of time and opportunity, altogether, to take in the man's description.

[richardnunweek]

Thank you Stewart,
Now can we accept that Topping was Hutchinson, and was telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Now that's settled.
Question.. Why was the mysterious ''A'' man showing his watch and chain, as Kelly approached him, was he flaunting his apparent wealth, or was the motive more sinister?
Regards Richard.

[babybird67]

Don't be silly.

You missed my point, Stewart.

Why would he find it so surprising that he would voluntarily set up a vigil in the middle of the night outside the court. Are you suggesting that isn't suspicious behaviour?

I could quite easily swallow he was surprised so took more than a brief glance as Atrakhan, but the vigil after? Then completely forgetting about it until Sunday. Then suddenly remembering and trying to alert a Policeman (to what? this man surprised me on Friday night Officer, can you arrest him please?), to the failure to attend the inquest of the murder of a friend he had known three years and allegedly had seen shortly before she was brutally murdered with a man carrying a parcel which was knife-shaped!

Sorry, but the whole thing stinks.