Mitre Square Workman

[Carrotty Nell]

I heard a story about a workman who was on duty near Mitre Square at 1.30 am, which would be only about 5 minutes before the murder.

He was approached by a well-dressed man who asked him if he had seen a man and woman going through the passage into Mitre Square.

I cannot find any reference to this sighting in the inquest report. Who was this workman, where did the story come from, and what might the workman have been working on near Mitre Square at that time in the morning? I hope someone can point me in the right direction?

[joelhall]

you mean james blenkinsop?

[Monty]

Nell,

That'll be James Blenkin(g)sopp you are refering to. He was the watchman of some street alterations in nearby St James place (Orange Market).

Its possible the man he saw was a CID detective. As they were fanning out in the area at the time.

Cheers

Monty

[richardnunweek]

Hi Monty,
The night watchman was asked if he had seen 'A man and woman pass' indicating that he was looking for a couple.
The time was given as 130am, about the same time as a couple that has been alleged to have been Eddowes and possible killer, were seen by Mr Lawende and co.
As Eddowes was not killed at least for some minutes , the man asking the watchman the question, may or may not, have been looking for that couple.
And my suggestion is, as suggested by your good self. might have been a detective, but in my opinion had been deployed either to follow Eddowes from the station or had observed her en -route, being accosted by a man, proceeded to follow, but lost them as they reached the vacinity of Mitre square, hense the desperation.
Regards Richard.

[Stephen Thomas]

I haven't got the book to hand but in 'Trial of George Chapman' the author states that Mitre Square was under surveillance that night by undercover policemen who had been under instructions to look out for couples.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Stephen
Is this the comment you're referring to?

Fifteen minutes later, at 1.45, a man found the body, with the throat cut and trunk mutilated, in the south-west corner of the square. As it happened that the police were that morning closely watching people entering the square in twos, it was surmised that the murderer and Eddowes entered separately and met inside.

[Monty]

Im assuming this is a take on the White article.

Why would Eddowes be followed and why was Mitre square singled out for surveillance?

The police were ordered to pay attention to couples but in general, not in a specific location

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Stephen
Is this the comment you're referring to?

Fifteen minutes later, at 1.45, a man found the body, with the throat cut and trunk mutilated, in the south-west corner of the square. As it happened that the police were that morning closely watching people entering the square in twos, it was surmised that the murderer and Eddowes entered separately and met inside.

Yes, that's it Chris (I just found the book).

[Dan Norder]

The police were ordered to pay attention to couples but in general, not in a specific location

Hi Monty,

Exactly. Mitre Square wouldn't have been singled out in any way until after the murder, which is undoubtedly what the article mentioned in the original post refers to. The book then confused the alleged (and dubious) White story with a Mitre Square stake out and paired it with a misunderstanding of the idea that the police were looking for couples in a specific spot instead of in general.

It's sad how many books get everything all twisted around, but I guess it's inevitable when it's so easy to do.

[Monty]

Dan

Guess thats what happens when you take information reported years after the event at face value. Breeds confusion and misinformation.

My advice? Buy Evans and Skinners sourcebook and build from that.

Cheers

Monty

[perrymason]

Hello all,

Well there were 3 city police searching streets and alleys nearby when the murder occurred, technically not just a boundary perimeter kind of patrolling. I dont know that there is absolutely nothing to be made of Macnaughtens "mistake", or Whites tale, or the references earlier.

Mitre Square was I believe Fenian friendly as well in past incindents wasnt it? Jack wasnt the only game in town at the time....not if Lord Balfour was valued at all.

Best regards all.

[Carrotty Nell]

And my suggestion is, as suggested by your good self. might have been a detective, but in my opinion had been deployed either to follow Eddowes from the station or had observed her en -route, being accosted by a man, proceeded to follow, but lost them as they reached the vacinity of Mitre square, hense the desperation.
Regards Richard.

If Richard is right with this theory, do we not have a very good candidate for that elusive 'City PC who was a beat near Mitre Square'?

[Dan Norder]

If he were, yes, but why would a policeman follow Eddowes? They didn't just trail after every streetwalker they saw, and there's nothing to suggest they'd have any reason to single her out for special treatment. I think the suggestion that the "City PC" witness was just a confused reference to Lawende, the witness for the City of London police.

[Monty]

Harvey or Watkins or..

The 2 closest to Mitre square were PCs Watkins and Harvey and neither report any such sighting.

The only one I can really connect to this story is Halse, who was a DC and not a PC. Halse stopped searched 2 men in Wentworth st minutes after Eddowes was found.

I tend to lean towards Dans idea of confusion and poor memory.

Monty

[Mike Covell]

Could these be the workmen mentioned?

5th October 1888 Hull Daily Mail


IMPORTANT STATEMENT BY A SEWER FOREMAN
It may be mentioned in connection with the Mitre-square murder that the foreman of the sewer hands who are engaged in Aldgate in sweeping the streets and clearing away the refuse, &c., in the early hours of the morning, has stated most positively that at the time when the murder is supposed to have been perpetrated he was standing not more than 20 yards away from the spot where the body was subsequently found by the constable and himself. He states emphatically that he never heard any woman’s cries for help, nor did any sounds of a struggle reach his ear.