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What EXACTLY did Maurice Lewis say?

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  • What EXACTLY did Maurice Lewis say?

    I'm having trouble finding the actual articles where Maurice Lewis makes his comments about Mary Kelly drinking with "Dan and Julia" on the night of the murder. I really want to be able to quote the black-and-white words directly instead of just saying, "Maurice Lewis was reported as saying..." and then being able to stick any old spin on it like others have done.

    Can anyone help me please?

  • #2
    Here you are DP.

    http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../il881117.html

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    • #3
      Thank you!

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      • #4
        'Short, stout and dark.' 5ft 3. He is not describing MK nor is Mrs Maxwell. We know there was another Mary Kelly prostitute, the one who lived in Castle Alley and was admitted to the Whitechapel Infirmary with syphilis.
        Because the evidence of those two is so and odds with everybody else I do wonder if there were two MKs knocking around in 88. I am still trying to find out about the other MK. Not a hundred percent positive about the family i found without spending money.

        miss marple

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        • #5
          Thats what I wondered too, - "short, stout & dark"? - doesn't fit what others say about Kelly.
          Also, he says he's known her for five years, but three years previous Kelly was living at Breezers Hill?
          I also suspect Maxwell saw someone else.

          Maurice Lewis described the activity of Maxwell - going for milk, not Mary Kelly. So perhaps the press report of what Lewis said was a misunderstanding by the reporter?
          We might wonder if Maxwell was short, stout & dark......?
          Last edited by Wickerman; 06-09-2018, 08:58 AM.
          Regards, Jon S.

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          • #6
            Indeed, Wickerman. The five years that Lewis said he had known her makes no sense at all, as she was not in the East End in 83.

            miss marple

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            • #7
              Originally posted by miss marple View Post
              Indeed, Wickerman. The five years that Lewis said he had known her makes no sense at all, as she was not in the East End in 83.
              This used to bother me too, but then we don't know where Lewis was living five years earlier (unless anyone has looked into it?). And there's always the (admittedly slight) possibility that, being a tailor, he originally fitted Mary for the dresses she later tried to get back after leaving the West End.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                Thats what I wondered too, - "short, stout & dark"? - doesn't fit what others say about Kelly.
                Also, he says he's known her for five years, but three years previous Kelly was living at Breezers Hill?
                I also suspect Maxwell saw someone else.

                Maurice Lewis described the activity of Maxwell - going for milk, not Mary Kelly. So perhaps the press report of what Lewis said was a misunderstanding by the reporter?
                We might wonder if Maxwell was short, stout & dark......?
                I found two sources that mention Maxwell's height - one said 5'0", the other 5'5". Make of that what you will.

                Although it's possible Mrs.Maxwell had the day wrong, her description of Mary's clothing is consistent with that given by Mrs Cox, both mentioning the red pellerine (or wrapper as one account calls it!), the same one Catherine Pickett tried to borrow from Mary around 07:30. So unlikely I think that she had Mary confused with someone else.

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                • #9
                  Hi Joshua.

                  Yes, Cox says she wore a red pelerine, which is a fitted cape around the shoulders, with a collar, if I'm not mistaken.
                  Maxwell says the woman she saw wore a maroon shawl.

                  I did read somewhere that a red garment (shawl/pelerine?) was found in room 13, (was this by Abberline?).
                  I think Debs once mentioned it, for the life of me I can't find that statement.
                  It wasn't from the inquest.
                  Regards, Jon S.

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                  • #10
                    Hi,
                    At 9.am Mrs Prater stated , ''She was wearing [ Kelly]' a Jacket, and Bonnet, and went on to say she herself does not own such things.
                    At 1145 Mrs Cox stated Kelly was wearing a Red Pelerine.
                    Vastly different clothing.
                    So who was accurate regarding sighting. ?
                    We know Mrs Harvey left Kelly a Bonnet on the Thursday evening,, so that gives credence to Praters account.
                    Maybe then Mrs Cox was mistaken about seeing Blotchy that evening, and it was the previous night, rather like Hutchinson has been accused of.
                    Remains of a charred bonnet , and Velvet were found burnt in the fire.
                    We know Kelly owned a black velvet jacket.
                    Police were of the opinion that both Jacket and Bonnet were burnt because they were bloodstained.
                    Never explained.
                    Regards Richard.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by richardnunweek View Post
                      Maybe then Mrs Cox was mistaken about seeing Blotchy that evening, and it was the previous night, rather like Hutchinson has been accused of.
                      That was my conjecture some time back Richard. Cox is the only witness who said it was raining, and raining hard. Neither Lewis, Kennedy, Bowyer, or Hutchinson say it was raining.
                      Thats negative evidence of course but it is worth pointing out.
                      However, Cox does mention the singing.....so she is redeemed I guess.
                      Regards, Jon S.

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                      • #12
                        Hi Jon,
                        Problem being, Mrs Cox allegedly told her niece that Kelly was always singing so that does not indicate for certain the night of the 8th /morning of the 9th.
                        Regards Richard.

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                        • #13
                          Good point, and I think McCarthy said the same that she was always singing.
                          Regards, Jon S.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                            Yes, Cox says she wore a red pelerine, which is a fitted cape around the shoulders, with a collar, if I'm not mistaken.
                            Maxwell says the woman she saw wore a maroon shawl.
                            I don't think we should get too precise with the definition of pelerine, Jon, essentially it's a posh version of a shawl. Yes Cox calls it a pelerine in her inquest statement, but in her police statement she says it's a red knitted crossover.
                            Likewise Maxwell calls it a "morone shawl" in court, but "coloured wrapper" in her police statement.

                            I did read somewhere that a red garment (shawl/pelerine?) was found in room 13, (was this by Abberline?).
                            I think Debs once mentioned it, for the life of me I can't find that statement.
                            It wasn't from the inquest.
                            Maria Harvey says she left a pawn ticket for a shawl with Mary Jane, is that what you're thinking of?

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                            • #15
                              Julia Vanturney also said that she often sang irish songs. But she didn't hear her singing on the night of her death. Nor did Mrs Prater. In fact, isn't Cox the only source for the singing, at inquest? I know McCarthy says in a press interview that she was heard singing, but the logical source for him saying this is Cox, no?

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