12:45 am

[Michael W Richards]

do you think liz was in the club too?

in swanson,s report the chief inspector states that schwartz identified her body at the mortuary.

I believe Robert that there are extenuating circumstances here that very well could solve an important question, why was she there. Its not popular, but I believe its at least possible that Liz was there to clean up after the meeting. I think it may have been a gig for her.

She says she has been gainfully employed the past months cleaning "among the Jews", and here we have a Jewish Socialist club in need of cleaning. I don't see it as farfetched. And if that's the case, then it may have been misinterpreted why she was there by someone at the club and it escalated to fatal, or maybe she was there to meet a Jewish man socially.

I put about equal weight on them as possibilities...although I cant say probability based on known data.

I will add that I also believe its possible Israel Schwartz may have seen something close to what he describes, but inside the gates..as he left from the side door to head to his new address. I also believe its possible his old address was one of those cottages in the same passage.

[GUT]

do you think liz was in the club too?

in swanson,s report the chief inspector states that schwartz identified her body at the mortuary.

I took that ID to be

"yep that's the one I saw attacked"

[Robert St Devil]

do you think liz was in the club too?

in swanson,s report the chief inspector states that schwartz identified her body at the mortuary.

[Michael W Richards]

I believe its quite possible that Israel was actually at the club that night, as were some 200 Socialist Jews, and the events he describes were dramatized to save the International Club from heightened scrutiny. I believe its been established, by Debra Arif here, that Israel knew Woolf Wess from Paris a few years earlier, which then makes the position that he happened to be wandering by less believable.

So he may well have been "leaving for home" from location x, the club.

[GUT]

When he came homewards about a quarter before one - The Star, 1 October 1888

Is there any suggestion what Israel Schwartz is saying is:

I left for home from location X at 12:45 am and arrived at Berner Street some time after.

as in...

i left for home at 12:45 am. i decided i would go down berner street first to see if my wife was at our old address. if she wasn,t there, she must be at our new apartment on back-church. when i turned off commercial...

I'd read it as saying, "I was on my way home when, at 12:45 ...." so not when he left for home.

[Robert St Devil]

When he came homewards about a quarter before one - The Star, 1 October 1888

Is there any suggestion what Israel Schwartz is saying is:

I left for home from location X at 12:45 am and arrived at Berner Street some time after.

as in...

i left for home at 12:45 am. i decided i would go down berner street first to see if my wife was at our old address. if she wasn,t there, she must be at our new apartment on back-church. when i turned off commercial...