Lawende was silenced

[David Orsam]

If there was a risk of being exposed as a liar by calling himself Cross I can certainly suggest a much better way of him disguising his identity with the same risk of being exposed as a liar.

Letīs hear it!

Well that's easy. He could have given a false name, a false address and a false occupation.

[Fisherman]

David Orsam: Fisherman (again),

What you seem to be saying is that by using the name Cross, Lechmere was wanting to prevent his wife from finding out that he discovered the body of Nichols, presumably because he believed that no-one would ever subsequently bother to mention to her that a witness called "Cross" gave evidence at the inquest.

I am pointing to it as a possibility that he wanted to keep his wife out of the loop. It may have been a case of keeping somebody ele out of the loop, or something else - as I have already said.

This is not deception, in the same way that you calling yourself "Fisherman" rather than your real name is not deceiving anyone about your identity (and the same for me having a user name).

If his intention was to keep somebody out of the loop, it is deception. You are fooling nobody with your linguistic diearrhea, David.

Lechmere might just as easily have not wanted to use the name Lechmere because he felt guilty about failing to take the murder of a woman seriously, having left a dead body in the street so that he could get to work. There's no deception, just a desire to protect his family name.

There may be an innocent explanation, yes - and I have never denied that. The trouble is that you need so very many innocent explanations to exonerate the carman.

Alternatively, if his wife DID get to hear about a witness called Cross giving evidence at the inquest (in circumstances where Lechmere always believed she would) then we go back to the point that it was a weak attempt at deception because there were so many other details which would have identified him to his wife, including the address of 22 Doveton Street, thus leading to the inevitable conclusion that there was no deception going on at all.

The address was given in one paper only. How are you going to prove that any paper report, let alone that in the Star, was read to and absorbed by Elizabeth Lechmere? Answer: You canīt. Or are you envisaging a situatuon where the illiterates of London all knew that an obscure witness in the Nichols case lived at 22 Doveton Street...?


I can certainly say nothing further about the supposed "100+ imprints" until you clarify what these 100+ imprints are.

No? I thought you just said that you could do precisely that..?

Anyhow, thatīs all Iīll have from your side for this week. Iīm off to Ugglarp tomorrow, and having written that in a worldwide official source, we can work from the belief that the illiterates of Botswana will know where Iīm going in a jiffy.

[David Orsam]

You said that you want to see the entries or something to that effect. I know that you have not done so. And the only deduction must be that you do not know which entries are there. Guesswork is what you can offer.

Am I wrong?

I didn't say anything about wanting to see any entries or anything to that effect. My posts have been very clear on this.

I have explained what my suspicions are and what they are based on.

And I have asked you tell me the number of different types of documents involved in this figure of 100+ examples.

This is quite obviously another exercise in evasion on your part.

[David Orsam]

I can certainly say nothing further about the supposed "100+ imprints" until you clarify what these 100+ imprints are.

No? I thought you just said that you could do precisely that..?

Are you having problems with comprehension Fisherman? Or are you just imagining stuff? The very thing you criticized Trevor Marriott for in this very thread.

I have not said ANYTHING of the sort.

[David Orsam]

The address was given in one paper only. How are you going to prove that any paper report, let alone that in the Star, was read to and absorbed by Elizabeth Lechmere? Answer: You canīt. Or are you envisaging a situatuon where the illiterates of London all knew that an obscure witness in the Nichols case lived at 22 Doveton Street...?

Totally missing the point. Lechmere doesn't know how many newspapers are going to report his evidence or what parts of it they are going to report. Surely he has to assume everything is going to be reported. We are only talking about the supposed attempt at deception so all that matters is what is in Lechmere's mind.

[David Orsam]

If his intention was to keep somebody out of the loop, it is deception.

Really??? If I deliberately keep you out of the loop as to what I'll be doing this weekend I'm deceiving you about it am I?

[Columbo]

Nothing has "officially" happened Columbo. You don't get yourself a free pass for an off-topic post by blaming other people and claiming that a thread has been "officially" turned into another thread. You are now as guilty as everyone else who has posted off-topic in this thread!

Guilty as charged! But come on, there's no way this thread is going back to the original topic, so it has become a Lechmere thread once again.

Columbo

[Columbo]

Really??? If I deliberately keep you out of the loop as to what I'll be doing this weekend I'm deceiving you about it am I?

What are you hiding? why don't you want to keep us in the loop about your "secret" weekend? Hmmmm very suspicious....


Columbo

[Robert]

What is truly suspicious is that we don't know this poster's forename. Is it David or-Sam?

[Abby Normal]

Guilty as charged! But come on, there's no way this thread is going back to the original topic, so it has become a Lechmere thread once again.

Columbo

I'll Try!!!

ok. back on topic. I'll start.

"Lawende was silenced."

what rimes with "lawende"? if you cant think of anything-then what rimes with "silenced"? if you still cant think of something, then what rimes with "was"?

First person who can come up with most rimes for all three wins!*


Good luck!

*has to be real words**

**like not made up***

***like in the dictionary

[Columbo]

What is truly suspicious is that we don't know this poster's forename. Is it David or-Sam?

I know who it is! David (Berkowitz)or(Son of )Sam! I didn't think inmates got to use the internet.

Cuz rhymes with was.

Columbo

[Columbo]

Hi David,

Do you know how common it was for people to lie about their name at inquests in the 1880s?

And how common was it for them to use a secondary name?

Regards, Pierre

I believe the question has come up before. Was Lechmere actually lying by using Cross? Some say yes becuase he didn't use it in recent memory, but he was known as Cross at one point in his life so is it a lie?

Columbo

[Abby Normal]

I believe the question has come up before. Was Lechmere actually lying by using Cross? Some say yes becuase he didn't use it in recent memory, but he was known as Cross at one point in his life so is it a lie?

Columbo

To get back on topic, please refer to my previous post. 2 before your last.

[Columbo]

To get back on topic, please refer to my previous post. 2 before your last.

Sorry, had a bout of Orsamitis.


Columbo

[Robert]

Actually what happened was :

LAWENDE : I can describe the man in minute detail. He was -

(BY A JUROR) : You ever heard of a man called Lechmere?

LAWENDE : No! Now, as I was saying -

(BY THE JUROR) : You must have heard of him. Defiant-looking fellow with cruel beady eyes.

CORONER : Mr Fisherman - !

LAWENDE : Mr Fisherman? Oh, I've heard of him. He keeps writing me letters asking if I've heard of Lechmere.

(BY THE JUROR) : Ah, then you HAVE heard of Lechmere!

LAWENDE : Yes. No. I mean -

(BY THE JUROR) : You have been caught out, Mr Lawende......