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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
    Therefore I’ll push it further, with no proof of this of course, there could have been ‘medical’ reasons for all the Torso killings. A madman with some kind of medical training who performed abortions (of which Jackson was a failed Example) he might even have been delusional enough to believe that he was doing some kind of valuable research. He then, because he might be linked to some of his victims, had to destroy their identities by dismemberment

    For me, a pretty reasonable scenario which ‘explains’ all. Why can’t this be true apart from the fact of course that some don’t want it to be?
    Hi HS
    and this cant be applied to the ripper as well, because....???
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RockySullivan View Post
      No thanks I'll let the majority of people keep being ******* idiots and stand on the right side of history in this case
      The only people in danger of being ******* idiots ( to use your words) on any ripper-related subject Rocky are those that believe that they have some prior claim on truth regarding events that took place 130 years ago. Those that think that they are categorically correct just because of over confidence in their own analysis of the known facts.

      Calling people ****** idiots because they disagree with you is all anyone needs to know about the merits of your method of debating.
      Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 07-31-2018, 07:06 AM.
      Regards

      Sir Herlock Sholmes.

      “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by RockySullivan View Post
        So the two serial killers operating in victorian London in 1888 both know how to remove a uterus?
        Apparently.

        Just as there may have been 2 bookmakers that could read hieroglyphs or 2 barrelmakers who could operate a loom or 2 surgeons that had sisters living in Paraguay.

        You sound like the conspiracy theorist who constantly says “what are the chances of...”
        Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 07-31-2018, 07:06 AM.
        Regards

        Sir Herlock Sholmes.

        “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
          Hi HS
          and this cant be applied to the ripper as well, because....???
          Hi Abby,

          Because the ripper killed in the streets and left his victims in tact and on display.
          Regards

          Sir Herlock Sholmes.

          “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
            The only people in danger of being ******* idiots ( to use your words) on any ripper-related subject Rocky are those that believe that they have some prior claim on truth regarding events that took place 130 years ago. Those that think that they are categorically correct just because of over confidence in their own analysis of the known facts.

            Calling people ****** idiots because they disagree with you is all anyone needs to know about the merits of your method of debating.
            Originally posted by John Wheat View Post
            The Ripper and The Torso Killer were two different killers. Anyone who doesn't think so is an idiot.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
              That if there hadn't been a "bump" there, the uterus might well have been left intact. Or, in other words, the removal of the uterus was effected largely as a by-product of wanting to remove the child, not as a "hysterectomy" in its own right, which was what happened in the majority of the Ripper murders.
              I get you now, Gareth, thanks! And that's certainly a possibility. He may just have wanted to get rid of the "bump" in order to make the cutting up of the torso and dumping of the body parts more easy.
              Last edited by FrankO; 07-31-2018, 07:22 AM.
              "You can rob me, you can starve me and you can beat me and you can kill me. Just don't bore me."
              Clint Eastwood as Gunny in "Heartbreak Ridge"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                Hi Abby,

                Because the ripper killed in the streets
                um Kelly anyone?
                Last edited by RockySullivan; 07-31-2018, 07:30 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                  Apparently.

                  Just as there may have been 2 bookmakers that could read hieroglyphs or 2 barrelmakers who could operate a loom or 2 surgeons that had sisters living in Paraguay.

                  You sound like the conspiracy theorist who constantly says “what are the chances of...”
                  Bookmakers, barrel makers and surgeons. We are talking about an aberration, not a profession mr sholmes.

                  edit: seriously that's your argument? 2 barrel makers could operate a loom?
                  Last edited by RockySullivan; 07-31-2018, 07:33 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by FrankO View Post
                    He may just have wanted to get rid of the "bump" in order to make the cutting up of the torso and dumping of the body parts more easy.
                    I'd go with that, Frank. I've also suggested that he may have shied away from cutting through the baby out of some kind of warped conscience, so removed it - and its uterine casing - before proceeding to carve up the mother's body.
                    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                      Pinchin St was Ripper territory, hence there was geographical overlap
                      Like I said, Pinchin Street was the sole exception. I should point out that none of the Ripper murders happened outside a tight little area of the East End, so if there was an overlap it only went one way.
                      So, not only in the same city but in the same corner of the East End.
                      In only one case, and that was an exception in that she was dumped close in time and space to a policeman's beat and sleeping tramps, both the victim's arms were still attached, and ISTR that no other body parts were found - not in the Thames or anywhere else. Not only that, but the nearest Ripper victim to Pinchin Street (Stride) was herself an exception in the series of 1888, and there is some doubt that she was a Ripper victim at all.
                      It would be rare enough to have two series of murders in the same country.
                      That is not strictly true, is it? Besides, there have been cases of multiple serial murderers operating in the same general time-frame in the same broad geographical area before. Note my words: "general" time-frame and "broad" geographical area, because that's what we're honestly dealing with when comparing TK and JTR.
                      Let alone the same square mile.
                      As I said, only ONE of the torso victims was found in the same part of London as the Ripper murders.
                      Last edited by Sam Flynn; 07-31-2018, 08:00 AM.
                      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by RockySullivan View Post
                        So the two serial killers operating in victorian London in 1888 both know how to remove a uterus?
                        Do you know how to cut meat? Then you, too, can remove a uterus if you put your mind to it. Who knows, you might even do it more successfully and consistently than Jack the Ripper, whose mileage varied between victims.
                        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                          Hi Abby,

                          Because the ripper killed in the streets and left his victims in tact and on display.
                          Hello friend

                          but he removed the sexual organs of two of them-the uterus. and similar with Jackson.

                          I do agree with you that I think the torso man and the ripper could had some kind of medical training-if not surgery then at least anatomy.


                          Debs has been doing research that posited the idea that Jackson could have died as a result of a back street doctor accidently killing her-through poisoning or something -trying to abort her pregnancy. but not surgically.


                          of course that dosnt negate he killed the other torso victims or even the ripper victims. I think its an interesting avenue to explore.
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                            Apparently.

                            Just as there may have been 2 bookmakers that could read hieroglyphs or 2 barrelmakers who could operate a loom or 2 surgeons that had sisters living in Paraguay.

                            You sound like the conspiracy theorist who constantly says “what are the chances of...”
                            Hi HS
                            The thing that flips it for me-as Ive said im at about 70% thinking they are the same man-is the post mortem mutilation on the torso victims above and beyond what was needed for dismemberment only.

                            I used to think there was no way they were related at all until I learned of this.

                            the vertical gashes down the abdoman, missing uterus, internal organs etc. I mean dosnt that kind of eliminate possible other reasons for their murders?Like a serial killer whos fascination is only with dismemberment or that they were killed for more traditional motives and cut up just to aid in disposal?
                            Even the accidental death from a back street dr like i just mentioned?


                            to me it not only narrows the possible motives of the torso killer but shows another serial killer who likes to cut up and into the bodies of dead women--like the ripper.

                            if it weren't for these exteranneous mutilations-full disclosure-I would be under 50/50 they were the same man.
                            Last edited by Abby Normal; 07-31-2018, 08:27 AM.
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              Like I said, Pinchin Street was the sole exception. I should point out that none of the Ripper murders happened outside a tight little area of the East End, so if there was an overlap it only went one way.In only one case, and that was an exception in that she was dumped close in time and space to a policeman's beat and sleeping tramps, both the victim's arms were still attached, and ISTR that no other body parts were found - not in the Thames or anywhere else. Not only that, but the nearest Ripper victim to Pinchin Street (Stride) was herself an exception in the series of 1888, and there is some doubt that she was a Ripper victim at all.

                              That is not strictly true, is it? Besides, there have been cases of multiple serial murderers operating in the same general time-frame in the same broad geographical area before. Note my words: "general" time-frame and "broad" geographical area, because that's what we're honestly dealing with when comparing TK and JTR.
                              As I said, only ONE of the torso victims was found in the same part of London as the Ripper murders.
                              yes and this one torso had a 15 inch cut from pubes to sternum. it sounds like you are giving one the value of zero, which might be ******* up your whole equation

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RockySullivan View Post
                                yes and this one torso had a 15 inch cut from pubes to sternum. it sounds like you are giving one the value of zero, which might be ******* up your whole equation
                                exactly see my previous post
                                "Is all that we see or seem
                                but a dream within a dream?"

                                -Edgar Allan Poe


                                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                                -Frederick G. Abberline

                                Comment

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