Torso Killings, Newspaper Thread

[anna]

brown paper packages tied up with string....

And I though my christmas presents were a bit on the tasteless side!

[FromHell_JacktheRipper]

These are very agreeable articles. Thank you kindly for posting them here.

[aspallek]

This from the West Coast Times (New Zealand) 18 October 1889.

I am curious as to who this Lawson Tait is and why a gynecologist would get involved and what made him suspect that the murderer was, of all things, a woman? it is also interesting in that we now know that William Druitt and Robert Druitt specialized in obstetrics.

[aspallek]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawson_Tait

[Debra A]

and what made him suspect that the murderer was, of all things, a woman?

Andy, I think Lawson's theory that the murderer was a woman was to do with washing!
He gave an interview to the Birmingham Daily Post in sept 1889, claiming that only a woman would be able to remove all the bloodstains from her garments that the murderer would inevitably have. He went into great details on how a woman would wash out blood in cold water, rather than the hot water a silly man would try and use, although he himself obviously knew a lot about washing to come up with the idea in the forst place!
He also claimed a woman would be able to escape detection when leaving the crimescenes by rolling up her bloodstained skirts and flitting in her petticoat.

[aspallek]

Thanks, Debra. Interesting and a little bizarre! Tait certainly would have known the medical Druitts, William and Robert, quite well. Did Tait make any connection between the torso murders and JtR?

[Mike Covell]

Interesting stuff. As I have been transcribing I have found a few new snippets on The Whitehall Mystery, Pimlico Mystery, and Guildford Mystery, all very interesting Torso related mysteries.

[Debra A]

Thanks, Debra. Interesting and a little bizarre! Tait certainly would have known the medical Druitts, William and Robert, quite well. Did Tait make any connection between the torso murders and JtR?

Just a little correction to my post, the interview originally appeared in the Pall Mall Gazette Sept 89, and was copied by the Birmingham Post.

Lawson says that he believed the Whitechapel, Battersea and Chelsea murders to be connected but doesn't go into any detail. It may be that he was referring just to the Pinchin St torso when mentioning Whitechapel.

One interesting snippet I've never seen before is that he mentions that 'the last woman murdered had her hair cut through' This has to refer to one of the 88 Whitechapel victims as the torso's were all found headless, it reminds me of the press reports that not long after the murder of MJK, that a strange man had been seen in a coffee shop with a clump of bloodstained hair in his hand.

Mike, any snippets on the torso's you can post would be great!

[aspallek]

This is becoming very interesting. Again as a gynecologist, he certainly would have know William and Robert Druitt who both specialized in obstetrics. It appears that we can say the following about Tait's theory:

1. He considered the Torso murders and the Ripper murders to be by the same hand.

2. From the type of incisions made he concluded them to be the work of a London butcher, as opposed to a butcher from elsewhere. Apparently, he was convinced the cuts resembled a certain butchers' technique particular to London. Curiouly, Tait indicated that he had not seen any of the remains in question.

3. He favored the theory that the killer was a woman. This was based on his assumption that the murderer suffered from "epileptic furor" which was thought to be more common in women than in men (the laundering theory notwithstanding). You can read Tait's Diseases of Women on Google Books.

Whether or not Tait knew of the Druitt family suspicions, his belief that the Torso murders were committed by JtR would, if correct, exonerate Montague Druitt.

[Debra A]

This is becoming very interesting. Again as a gynecologist, he certainly would have know William and Robert Druitt who both specialized in obstetrics. It appears that we can say the following about Tait's theory:

1. He considered the Torso murders and the Ripper murders to be by the same hand.

2. From the type of incisions made he concluded them to be the work of a London butcher, as opposed to a butcher from elsewhere. Apparently, he was convinced the cuts resembled a certain butchers' technique particular to London. Curiouly, Tait indicated that he had not seen any of the remains in question.

3. He favored the theory that the killer was a woman. This was based on his assumption that the murderer suffered from "epileptic furor" which was thought to be more common in women than in men (the laundering theory notwithstanding). You can read Tait's Diseases of Women on Google Books.

Whether or not Tait knew of the Druitt family suspicions, his belief that the Torso murders were committed by JtR would, if correct, exonerate Montague Druitt.

Andy,

I'd read the comments about a 'London butcher's' trademarks before, but not seen them attributed to Tait, so thanks for that.

If Tait didn't actual view any of the bodies I can't really see how he could be speaking with any type of authority about them can you? Several doctors of the time had there own personal opinions about the murderer, without being involved in any official capacity. I recall the stories of a surgeon who recognised the specific hanywork of a fellow surgeon (a vivisectionist I think)
at the Buck's Row murder.

I'm not sure much stock can be held in his linking of the two series of murders. I know from my own research into Elizabeth Jackson's murder that from certain circumstances, that weren't published at the time, there's very good reason for believing her death was the result of an abortion. I can't see how this would tie in to the 'slaughterhouse cleaner' theory of Tait's.

[aspallek]

Trewman's Exeter Flying Post or Plymouth and Cornish Advertiser (Exeter, England), Friday, September 20, 1889:

[aspallek]

The Pall Mall Gazette (London, England), Friday, September 20, 1889:

[aspallek]

Manchester Times (Manchester, England), Saturday, September 21, 1889 (note the comment at the end in whuch Lawson claims not to have seen the remains of any victim):



Aberdeen Weekly Journal (Aberdeen, Scotland), Monday, September 23, 1889:



News (Frederick, Maryland) Oct 21 1889:

[aspallek]

Hi Debra,

The significance of Tait's view that JtR and the Torso murders are one and the same lies not in the accuracy of this view but rather in the fact that Tait believed it to be so. If Tait believed the Pinchin Street Torso to be a Ripper victim he obviously must not consider Montague Druitt to be a Ripper suspect at all. This is significant in that he would have known the Druitts well. Of course, since he favored the idea that the killer was a woman, he wouldn't have considered Druitt to be a particularly good suspect at any rate.

[harry]

An article from the 'Jamaica Gleaner'reports the following.
London October8. in the week previous,the torso of a woman was found in a cellar in Whitechapel.The torso appeared to be that of a 'Fine' lady.Fine in this case appeared to refer to a woman of the middle or upper class.