Torso Killings, Newspaper Thread

[harry]

I came upon the 'Gleaner' extracts while researching another,unrelated matter.There was a lenghty article on the Parnell case also.

[smezenen]

If the amputation Knife in Don Rumbelows posession did belong to Jack then it would have come in handy for dismembering a torso.

[Sara]

I'ver done a bit of butchering - when I was married we had a farm and had to deal sometimes with pig and sheep, and even the odd deer. It's very hard physical work, and difficult to do neatly without a lot of experience.

The opinionated gynaechologist is quite a case isn't he? LOL.
His photo says it all - arrogant and self-satisfied...

It's just about possible all these murders were Jack's, following the Samantha Bisset / Rachel Nickel cases. I can just about imagine him 'ringing the changes' and getting a huge kick out of foxing the coppers... unlikely however.

The weird thing is where the body parts were left - right under the noses of the police so to speak. Was the torso murderer a policeman? More to the point, is there any record of a systematic investigation of all the lcoal slaughterhouses, and their staff?

[Archaic]

Hi, folks; I just wanted to thank Mike & everyone who posted Torso Murder articles & info on this thread! (I just got done leaving a "thank you" for Debra on the Elizabeth Jackson thread and didn't want to forget to thank the rest of you!)

After having learned more about them, I find the Torso murders even more baffling & fascinating than the C-5.

Thanks again for digging up the old articles, and please keep them coming! -Best regards, B.

[Mike Covell]

Glad you liked them Archaic, they certainly warrent more attention, and Debs does a great job of looking into them.

[Archaic]

Hi, Mike; agreed! -Archaic

[perrymason]

Hello all,

I believe there are certain wounds inflicted on victim murdered in room 13 on November 9th that suggest the killer was considering amputations or disjointing. Marys neck is severely cut like the others and is almost decapitated, is it her left or her right arm that is essentially attached by only sinew,.... and it would appear that her right leg might have become separated at the knee joint before long.

The acts performed in that room suggest de-engineering corpses, not organ objectives.

Best regards all.

[halomanuk]

Hi Mike,
The heart was taken from the 1st torso murder in 1887 also but i believe that was the only time,as was MJK heart taken.
However,with the time scale the murderer had to 'work' in 13 Millers Court i think if he wanted to literally cut her into certain pieces ala the Torso Killer then he would have had enough time.

I think it was more a crazed frenzy situation.

[Tom_Wescott]

The acts performed in that room suggest de-engineering corpses, not organ objectives.

I like the way you worded that. And it makes sense. If you're right, then it's almost proof-positive that Kelly and Chapman had the same killer.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Cap'n Jack]

'then it's almost proof-positive'
So much like a gin and tonic, without gin then?

[perrymason]

I like the way you worded that. And it makes sense. If you're right, then it's almost proof-positive that Kelly and Chapman had the same killer.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

...that was a good set up Tom.

Annie has to be the quintessential Ripper victim I would think, and the Coroner at Pollys Inquest and Annies thought their killer was after specific organs, and that was likely why he killed them.

If the skin flaps had'nt been in the press before the murder they would have been a pivotal issue with Mary I would think. Though every act that was performed on Mary had in some form already been in the press the 2 months prior to Marys murder, and I don't recall any press that might be seen as suggesting the uterus extraction to Annies killer, prior to her murder. At least that killer was "original".

I think youd agree Tom that if Jack killed Mary Kelly he indulged himself in activities that were not conducive to either murder or organ extractions. Lets say the facial wounds and the "thigh peel" for examples. I think youd also agree that the wounds on Polly, Annie and Kate that do not contribute to their murder or organ extraction are minimal compared with Mary Kelly.

That leads to a suggestion that Jack must have let himself wander in his own sick mind without any tangible indicator of a single intended goal as seen in prior kills.

Since Polly, Annie and to a lesser degree, Kate, ...are found killed and mutilated in extremely similar circumstances and manner, I dont see why he would then "wander" mentally when committing murder. But I suppose if he killed Mary because he was fired from his job teaching and was weeks from tossing himself in the Thames with stones in his pockets....he might just have lost his mind in that room. Did I get that dogma right?

But thats just my take on it of course....its not like any real authority in these matters might suggest that the three women I mentioned as perhaps being the full extent of the man called Jacks "Canon" based on known evidence.

Best regards Tom

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Perry. Thanks for the compliment on my set-up. I just meant that in a few of the Ripper killings, there was evidence of possible attempts at decapitation. However, I think that if the Ripper REALLY wanted to make off with a body part (sans organs), he could have done so, and certainly in the case of Kelly. But any possible attempt at decapitating Kelly cannot be used to differentiate her killer from that of Nichols and Chapman, because similar evidence was present there. If anything, it points to the same man in all three case. I agree that the Ripper was about more than just murder and organ taking.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[RockySullivan]

With the whitehall victim was found parts of newspaper, one from aug 24 and another "not of this years issue". Doesn't this possibly indicate that that Torso had a to have a place of his own where he's able to hold on too newspapers for a year? Obviously it's suspected Torso had a place to dismember but this seems to reinforce this idea. But why hold on to newspapers for a year? Strange bit of a hoarder? Also scraps of paper with animal blood were found.

Inspector Marshall, of the Criminal Investigation Department, said: About five o’clock on Oct. 2 I went to the new police buildings on the Thames Embankment, and in the basement saw the trunk referred to by previous witnesses. The corner from which it had been taken was pointed out to me, and I saw that the wall was a great deal stained. Examining the ground I found the piece of paper alluded to by the last witness, as well as a piece of string, apparently sash-cord. Dr. Hibbert handed me two pieces of material which had come from the remains. I at once made a thorough search of the vaults, but nothing more was discovered. On the following morning, with other officers, I made a further search of all the vaults, but nothing more was found nor anything suspicious observed. The piece of paper spoken to forms part of an Echo of Aug. 24. Dr. Hibbert handed me a number of small pieces of paper found on the body. They are pieces of the Chronicle, but I cannot yet establish the date. It is not of this year’s issue. With respect to the dress it is of broché satin cloth, of Bradford manufacture, but a pattern probably three years old.

Why were the pieces found on the body? I wonder if the echo aug 24 might be some type of clue left by Torso?

August 24 appears to be the day the end of the Tabram inquest appeared in the Times:
The Daily Telegraph
Last Day of inquest, Thursday, August 23, 1888
(published Friday, August 24, 1888, Page 6)

Yesterday afternoon [23 Aug] Mr. George Collier, the Deputy Coroner for South-East Middlesex, resumed the inquiry at the Working Lads' Institute, Whitechapel, into the circumstances attending the death of Martha Turner, or Tabram, a hawker, lately living at 4, Star-place, Star-street, Commercial-road E., who was discovered early on the morning of Tuesday, the 7th inst., lying dead on the first-floor landing of some model dwellings known as George-yard-buildings, Commercial-street, Spitalfields. When found the woman presented a shocking appearance, there being thirty-nine stab wounds on the body, some of them apparently having been inflicted with a bayonet.

[RockySullivan]

No one finds the Tabram link interesting?

[RockySullivan]

Strangely enough I met Patricia Cornwelll who was on her way to London for some ripper research and I mentione the aug 24 newspaper was the day after the Tabram inquest since she referenced the aug 24 paper as the day sickert had written letters printed. She found it interesting unlike you slags