autopsy notes

[Debra A]

...no Ms. P, that's what probably actually happened to the little chap...and it is very sickening.
And just when I thought you were getting in touch with your feminine side...

I wonder why I am being stuck on with the fem brigade...insider information perhaps?

[Mr Poster]

hi ho

well I still think its interesting. I imagine if I stuck my hand into someones guts and ripped a living 6 month old foetus out of there that there would be aa good chance of pulling cord and placenta out with it. But that was still there.

Even if its not ripper related...........th ebucthery of prostitutes pales into insignificance beside the pulling of living children out of the still warm guts of their mothers.

Quite odd though that should one say for example that the C5 were "slags" the femmy brigade would start up the usual wailing about "repsect the wimmin!".

But its quite alright to make flippant remarks about this little chap being stuck ina pickle jar or whatever.

Odd that. Probably its just that the femmy bunch like wailing and its a Pavlovian reponse to hearing words like "slapper".

p

[Monty]

Its so obvious Debs...a blind man could see it.

Monty

[Debra A]

If you're going down the abortion route then....Monty, yeah....obvious suicide!

[Mr Poster]

Its the missing foetus is whats interesting.............

p

[Debra A]

Is anyone else going to say it? "Mutilations" on the torsos..

Pinkerton, I am glad someone else has noticed that

Mike, thanks, that will be great. Take it easy this time though and pace yourself with the up and down bits!

[Mike Covell]

My latest trawl through the Hull Press Reports turned up a couple of new bits and pieces, I will be putting them in order and will post them over the weekend or early next week.

These are great Debs

[Pinkerton]

Wow!

Excellent find Debra. These are the types of posts I look forward to reading on the message boards--rather than reading through a hundred post debate on the key to MJK's room, the merits of Hutchinson as a witness, or was Stride a Ripper victim...ad nauseum.

Is anyone else going to say it? "Mutilations" on the torsos...the skill of a "butcher or knacker"...This all sounds terribly familiar doesn't it!

[Debra A]

Monty,
He must have misinterpreted what he was seeing in the victim's post mortem photograph...hmmm, there's a lesson there maybe?

The rest of Bond's notes say;

The breasts are large and prominent, with small, well-shaped nipples. There are no scars nor wounds, but there are impressions made by the string with which the trunk was tied. These are four in number, two running down obliquely from the shoulder and two crossing the chest,one at the level of the nipples and one across the upper part of the sternum.and again later in the notes;
Breasts, the mammary glands are large and healthy

Mr P,
Probably in a pickle jar floating in the Thames.

[Mr Poster]

Hi ho

Uterus had been opened on the left side by a vertical cut 6 in long through the left wall, inside uterus were the placenta, cord and membranes.

Thats very sad. I wonder what happened to the little fella. I suppose 6/7 months was a bit early top survive in those days.

p

[Monty]

Cheers Debs,

Yes, the photographer must have had experience of such matters.

Would such procedures be available to all or just the elite who could afford it?

Monty

[Debra A]

Hi Monty,
I'm not sure how common it would have been, but there was some pioneering cancer surgery going on in the late 1890's in England. It's odd that the reporter commenting on the photograph seems familiar with this type of procedure enough to notice it though doesn't it?

There is an 1889 painting by Thomas Eakins, titled The Agnew Clinic, wish shows some sort of breast surgery being performed by the American doctor
Dr. D. Hayes Agnew.

[Monty]

Debs,

Now that is intriguing.

Forgive my ignorance but would such procedures be conducted for breast cancer in that period?

Monty

[Debra A]

I came across this odd report in the Aberdeen Weekly Journal of Wed Oct 31 1888 concerning the photographs of the Whitehall torso and wonder (if the bit about the left breast is true, which isn't mentioned in the medical notes) why the details were not made public as an aid to identification?

A curious photograph has just been shown me. It represents the remains of a woman found in Whitehall with the arm picked up previously in the Thames attached to the shoulder. The trunk has been made to stand upon what looks like a fig box placed upon a barrel. The arm, which was correctly described at the time as of fine proportions, obviously belongs to the body, which is that of a woman of remarkable stature.
The left breast is emaciated from a surgical operation, presumably for cancer, coupled to the colossal proportions of the figure offers a starting point of investigation into the identity of the deceased which the police might have followed with probable advantage. The trunk, arm, and one leg were interred to-day at Woking cemetery. The head and other limbs are still missing.
Three copies only of the photograph are extant, but it is probable that one of the cheap pictorial prints will reproduce the sickening group.

[Debra A]

I meant to mention something else in connection with the torso's when putting up those details, but forgot.
The Whitehall torso killing actually may have been around the same time as the Nichols murder. Although the actual torso was found in October according to casebook, the arm that was said to have been part of the same body was found a little earlier than that. The doctors gave the opinion that the Whitehall torso murder had been committed 2 months previously, possibly at the end of August.