Pinchin Street Victim Identity.....

[RockySullivan]

In Israel Schwartz witness account he says the man chased him to the railway arch (at Pinchin street?). It seems like a coincidence that he was chased near the spot where the torso was. And if lipski was written on the wall near the torso. Could the men shouting lipski meant the two men were threatening to frame schwartz?

from the star: The man who came at him with a knife he also describes, but not in detail. He says he was taller than the other, but not so stout, and that his moustaches were red. Both men seem to belong to the same grade of society. The police have arrested one man answering the description the Hungarian furnishes. This prisoner has not been charged, but is held for inquiries to be made. The truth of the man's statement is not wholly accepted.

the lipski murder looks to me like it was done by schmuss & Rosenbloom and lipski framed for it. is there possible way that scmuss or rosenbloom could have been the men schwartz saw?

was someone arrested or is this an embellishment of the star?

[sdreid]

This coming Wednesday is the 125th anniversary of the finding of the Pinchin Street victim.

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

Just thought I'd add a little thing I found from "The Penny Illustrated Paper and Illustrated Times" dated 5.Oct 1889 pg. 294; Issue 1479. Just a small one paragrpah comment that caught my eye...

"The authorities at Scotland Yard have satisfied themselves, after careful inquiry, that the body recently found in Pinchin Street, Whitechapel, could not possibly be that of Emily Barker, late of Northampton."

This supports The Morning Advertiser, October 1st that was found and mentioned in Nick Connell and Stewart Evans' book The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper as Stewart himself mentioned in post 7 of this thread.

best wishes

Phil

[Uncle Jack]

Anything in the census records of Rosina Smith? I tried searching but had no luck but then again, others are better than me!

[Uncle Jack]

This stuff about Rosina Smith is great Chris, great find. Thanks for sharing mate.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Debs
I was only expressing my own opinion on the subject and fully appreciate that others will feel diferently.
This is to date the only mention I have found of Rosina Smith, but if I find anyting else I will post it here
All the best
Chris

[Debra A]

Personally I am totally unconcerned about being attributed as the finder of any information - it is the information itself that is imporant. My bottom line on this could be summed up as: "I would much rather that an item of information was on Casebook (or in the public domain) twice rather than not at all."

Hi Chris,
I see what you are saying, but I personally think it is important to check if possible and try and acknowledge who a specific piece of information has been found by (just that I happened to get the wrong person in this case ) Although it may only be one repeat newspaper article or piece of information at the end of the day, to another person it could represent part of 6 months hard work following a specific trail, thoughts and ideas that they have chosen to just summarise on the boards while not posting the specific sources, and I always try and keep that in mind.

And I haven't seen the name Rosina Lydia Smith come up before though so if there's any more infromation on her it would be good to see it, thanks.


Hi Stewart, sounds like an excellent book!

[Chris Scott]

Hi all
Thanks Stewart for the info. In this field it is inevitable with the amount of potential material out there and the number of researchers that people will independently come upon something that they were unaware was already known. A recent example of this was the Cross/Lechmere connection which was independently researched by two different searchers.
My own attitude to this is quite simple. I post things on Casebook which are
a) new to me (but may well have been brought up before) and
b) hopefully of interest to others
Personally I am totally unconcerned about being attributed as the finder of any information - it is the information itself that is imporant. My bottom line on this could be summed up as: "I would much rather that an item of information was on Casebook (or in the public domain) twice rather than not at all."

Just to finish, and returning to the substance of this thread, there is another story below regarding an alleged putative identification of the Pinchin Street victims. This concerns a young lady named Rosina Lydia Smith
This is from the Reynolds News of 24 November 1889
Regards
Chris

[Stewart P Evans]

The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper

Thanks, apologies for giving the wrong credits then! Although I do take the precaution of running these things through google and a casebook archive from 2003 had Stephen Ryder congratulating Chris for this find, so I don't feel too bad for not knowing as others at the time didn't seem to either, and no one mentioned this previous find on that thread either.

Debs, I was not trying to be clever and I did cite this information in the previous thread back in 2003 although you seem to have missed it. Despite the fact that I was Nick's co-author on The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper it was very much Nick's 'baby' and is an excellent little book that contained much new information discovered by Nick back in the 1990s. However, it was published by a very small publisher, Rupert Books, and had a print run of only 2,000 and didn't receive the exposure that it deserved.

[Debra A]

The name of Emily Barker in connection with the Pinchin Street torso case was first discovered by Nick Connell about ten years ago and appeared in his book The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper, pages 88-89, published in 2000 -

Thanks, apologies for giving the wrong credits then! Although I do take the precaution of running these things through google and a casebook archive from 2003 had Stephen Ryder congratulating Chris for this find, so I don't feel too bad for not knowing as others at the time didn't seem to either, and no one mentioned this previous find on that thread either.

[Stewart P Evans]

Lydia Hart

Someone found an article in a paper that claimed that Lydia Hart's relatives were able to track her down to a lodging house or work house (or something to that effect) and she was quite all right. Someone will have to post this article if they can find it.

The fact that Lydia Hart was traced and found alive and well was published in The New York Herald, London, of Wednesday September 11, 1889 -

[Stewart P Evans]

Emily Barker

Chris Scott once found the name Emily Barker mentioned, in a foreign paper I think.
I've since found other information on her . She was a runaway, homeless in Whitechapel and went missing after she was turned away from a refuge for refusing to admit she was an unforunate, she was just lost, scared and peniless and looking for help! Her father came to whitechapel to identify the Pinchin St torso but it wasn't Emily.
I can't recall any other names mentioned.

The name of Emily Barker in connection with the Pinchin Street torso case was first discovered by Nick Connell about ten years ago and appeared in his book The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper, pages 88-89, published in 2000 -

[Debra A]

Hi all,

Actually, I don't think Mr Barker actually got to view the body, he described a distinctive mark that Emily had and the police checked to see if it was on the torso, which it wasn't.
It was the same with the lady who thought the Whitehall torso may be her missing daughter Lilly Vass, they showed her mother the skirt found with the body and she didn't recognise it and so they concluded that it wasn't Lilly, she didn't actually see the remains as far as I know.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Debs - thanks for the mention:-)
Below is one version of the Emily Barker story

[Pinkerton]

Someone found an article in a paper that claimed that Lydia Hart's relatives were able to track her down to a lodging house or work house (or something to that effect) and she was quite all right. Someone will have to post this article if they can find it.