Did JtR change his MO after murdering Martha Tabram

[MrBarnett]

Or the first murder of JTR

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That’s what I said, Trevor.

[MrBarnett]

Well, most domestic murders are at the victims/killers abode or somewhere were one or both the people are familiar with. With possibly an escalation of an argument were say, you are right Gary the killer grabs something at hand - blunt instrument, knife etc. Unless it is pre planned then she would possibly be poisoned etc [ Chapman ] .
Following on from that, Martha didn't live or have any connection to George yard buildings as far as I am aware . But, if some of what Pearly Poll says is believed [ and , yes it is an if ], then we do know she took a punter there.
I don't know if there is concrete evidence off the top of my head that Martha did sell herself to make ends meet, but I will go with Martha being killed by a stranger/punter.
Regards Darryl

Of course, if the two people involved are both destitute, then there is no abode to speak of.

[Abby Normal]

Escalation would be strangulation with post-Morten mutilation. Or even just strangulation. Frenzied stabbing shows anger. There was no post-Morten mutilation which is what he lived for.

The murder of Tabram was pure rage. The murders of the others were not pure rage. It was about power. Completely different psychological mindset.

i see what your saying, and some what agree, but if she was a ripper victim she may have been a trigger and or unplanned kill and was sparked by something that happened between them and angered him. also, and i think someone mentioned before, that as an early clumsy ripper attempt, that perhaps it was more like panic stabbings when she didnt go down easily after a possible strangulation or blows to head attempt to incapacitate her. theres so so many other similarities to the rest of the series in time and place, victimology, and the clincher for me... the raised skirt.

[MrBarnett]

i see what your saying, and some what agree, but if she was a ripper victim she may have been a trigger and or unplanned kill and was sparked by something that happened between them and angered him. also, and i think someone mentioned before, that as an early clumsy ripper attempt, that perhaps it was more like panic stabbings when she didnt go down easily after a possible strangulation or blows to head attempt to incapacitate her. theres so so many other similarities to the rest of the series in time and place, victimology, and the clincher for me... the raised skirt.

Women wore high waisted skirts in those days. Martha’s killer pulled her upper clothing aside and inflicted numerous stabs to her upper abdomen. In order to teach her lower abdomen, he would have had to lift her skirt.

Let’s consider Emma Smith - in terms of time, place and victimology she was almost identical to Tabram. And the injuries she sustained couldn’t have been inflicted without lifting her skirt. So by those criteria, she must also have been a Ripper victim?

But she claimed to have been attacked by a gang - several men.

[Darryl Kenyon]

and i think someone mentioned before, that as an early clumsy ripper attempt, that perhaps it was more like panic stabbings when she didnt go down easily after a possible strangulation .

I agree Abby. Perhaps Jack struggled to throttle Maratha and afterwards in the cold light of day he realised that strangling on its own was not enough to subdue his victims but he had to cut their throats as well before performing any sort of post death mutilations.

Regards Darryl

[Abby Normal]

Women wore high waisted skirts in those days. Martha’s killer pulled her upper clothing aside and inflicted numerous stabs to her upper abdomen. In order to teach her lower abdomen, he would have had to lift her skirt.

Let’s consider Emma Smith - in terms of time, place and victimology she was almost identical to Tabram. And the injuries she sustained couldn’t have been inflicted without lifting her skirt. So by those criteria, she must also have been a Ripper victim?

But she claimed to have been attacked by a gang - several men.

hi gary
didnt Martha have a cut to her privates? he may have lifed her skirt for that. but whatever reason for her lifted skirt its like the others and shows an interest in exposing what was undernesth.
although i dont totally rule out emma, i dont think she was a ripper victim, no knife used and attacked by several men. ripper was all about the knife and worked alone.

[Darryl Kenyon]

hi gary
didnt Martha have a cut to her privates? .

Tom Wescott goes into this Abby in his book The Bank Holiday murders . Off the top of my head I think there was some form of evidence that Martha may have had a sharp object thrust into her vagina .

Regards Darryl

[Trevor Marriott]

Tom Wescott goes into this Abby in his book The Bank Holiday murders . Off the top of my head I think there was some form of evidence that Martha may have had a sharp object thrust into her vagina .

Regards Darryl

That was Emma Smith

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[MrBarnett]

That was Emma Smith

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No, Tom makes the argument that the injury to Tabram’s ‘private part’ was internal, but the evidence is somewhat tenuous in my opinion.

[Trevor Marriott]

No, Tom makes the argument that the injury to Tabram’s ‘private part’ was internal, but the evidence is somewhat tenuous in my opinion.

There is no evidence to support that theory

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[MrBarnett]

There is no evidence to support that theory

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How do you account for the considerable amount of blood between her legs?

[MrBarnett]

The reporter from the Sheffield Evening Telegraph who visited George Yard Buildings on the afternoon of 7th August described the scene when the body was discovered, information he had presumably obtained from Francis Hewitt:

‘At that time blood was flowing from a great wound in her heart. Several other wounds had been inflicted, one of a most revolting nature.’

How would Hewitt have known that there was a wound of a ‘revolting nature’ if, as Tom suggests, that wound was internal and was only discovered during the post mortem? Perhaps he assumed there was such a wound because of the blood between her legs.

[Trevor Marriott]

How do you account for the considerable amount of blood between her legs?

I have just read your previous post and ask when are researchers going to stop relying on newspaper reports they are unsafe how mnay more times do people have to be told

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[Darryl Kenyon]

That was Emma Smith

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Tom suggests as Gary says that Martha was violated internally in her private parts as well Trevor. Thus providing a sort of continuity from Emma .

From Wikipedia - Piquerism (from the French piquer - "to prick") is a sexual interest in penetrating the skin of another person with sharp objects (such as pins, razors, knives, etc.). Sometimes, this is serious enough to cause extreme injuries or even death.^[1] Piquerism is a paraphilia as well as a form of sadism. The most frequently targeted areas of the body are the breasts, buttocks, and groin.

And - Dr. Robert D. Keppel and his colleagues concluded in an analysis of London's Jack the Ripper murders of 1888 that "the injuries sustained by the victims displayed the signature characteristic of picquerism."

I will stick my neck out and say I found Tom's arguments quite persuasive and certainly changed my outlook on Emma being a victim of the ripper. Plus at the same time strengthening my personal belief that Martha was to.

Regards Darryl

[MrBarnett]

I have just read your previous post and ask when are researchers going to stop relying on newspaper reports they are unsafe how mnay more times do people have to be told

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In this case perhaps it was a lucky guess by Hewitt or the SET reporter, because Swanson confirmed the wound to the ‘private part’ in a report dated (?) September.

We are all aware of your dismissal of the valuable primary source of contemporary newspaper reports.

Your rather infantile use of emojis does nothing to add to your credibility.