Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim

[Jon Guy]

Hello JonBut the Ripper's victims typically didn't have multiple wounds to their throats or chests - I'm not counting cut throats, because Tabram's throat was conspicuously not cut. That, in itself, is rather unusual; surely, if you're going to use a sharp knife on someone's throat, the most effective way of using it would be to cut the throat, not stick it multiple times. Plus, of course, it's probable that the wound which actually killed Tabram was the stab to the heart, and that the throat wounds were inflicted afterwards, in an almost complete reversal of the Ripper's approach.

What makes you think the long bladed knife to the heart was last ?

As you say, the neck and chest took the brunt of the attack, which in itself, tells us that he was trying to kill her, finally swapping knives to kill her with that last one to the heart. And, after 39 lunges, he`d be knackered, lesson learnt.

[Sam Flynn]

I understand your guess and its certainly possible, but with all the other evidence combined-victimology, time of night, location.

Indeed, but those specific factors might not tell us much in this instance. The nature of the job requires the prostitutes to go off to dark corners with strangers late at night, and any prostitute-murders, whether perpetrated by serialists or one-off killers, will tend to happen in areas where there's a concentration of prostitutes.

The one thing the Tabram murder has in its favour is, as you say, "proximity in time to the series", which is a far stronger factor in the Tabram case than all the non-canonical victims apart from Mylett (whose candidacy as a Ripper victim is doubtful to say the least).

[Abby Normal]

What makes you think the long bladed knife to the heart was last ?

As you say, the neck and chest took the brunt of the attack, which in itself, tells us that he was trying to kill her, finally swapping knives to kill her with that last one to the heart. And, after 39 lunges, he`d be knackered, lesson learnt.

exactly-not to mention any struggle, screams and excess blood on his person after such an attack. lesson learnt indeed!

[Brenda]

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I think skirts were lifted and legs were posed on these victims. Here is an article about posing in homicides that is worth a read.

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=1866

"Offenders pose a body out of anger or as retaliation. The offender uses staging or posing as a weapon to punish and degrade the woman. Typically the posing consisted of spreading open the victim’s legs, inserting objects, or exposing the breasts to further degrade the victim."

[Sam Flynn]

What makes you think the long bladed knife to the heart was last ?

I don't, Jon. I think it was first.... or "first-ish" at any rate.

[Jon Guy]

exactly-not to mention any struggle, screams and excess blood on his person after such an attack. lesson learnt indeed!

Thanks Abby, but I do think that in this instance he would have been covered in blood, because each time he withdrew the knife he would have blood spatter on him. Another lesson learnt.

[Jon Guy]

I don't, Jon. I think it was first.... or "first-ish" at any rate.

Doh ...sorry, I meant what makes you think the long bladed knife to the heart was first

[Sam Flynn]

Doh ...sorry, I meant what makes you think the long bladed knife to the heart was first

It's just that I can't think of any particular reason why the other stabs would have come first. I just think he went berserk, and that her heart would have been a natural target to hit early on. I don't think this makes much material difference, in all honesty, and the main point I wanted to make in my earlier post was this:

"The Ripper's victims typically didn't have multiple wounds to their throats or chests. I'm not counting cut throats, because Tabram's throat was conspicuously not cut, which, in itself, is rather unusual. Surely, if you're going to use a sharp knife on someone's throat, the most effective way would be to cut the throat, not stab it multiple times."

[Harry D]

And it's a valid point, Sam. One that I considered before when ruling out Tabram. It does seem like a different beast was at work, as the majority of her wounds were concentrated on her upper body whilst the Ripper focused on the abdomen/genitalia.

[Pierre]

I think skirts were lifted and legs were posed on these victims. Here is an article about posing in homicides that is worth a read.

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id=1866

"Offenders pose a body out of anger or as retaliation. The offender uses staging or posing as a weapon to punish and degrade the woman. Typically the posing consisted of spreading open the victim’s legs, inserting objects, or exposing the breasts to further degrade the victim."

Punish and degrade, yes I agree.

Pierre

[Patrick S]

I'm not sure one can place a percentage of probability upon something like Tabram as "Ripper" victim. In my view it is, at this point, simply a matter of opinion, how one interprets the available, albeit limited information.

Personally, I feel as if Tabram was likely killed by the same man who killed Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes, Kelly. For me, it's interesting (and perhaps notable) that a (near) square can be drawn in mapping Buck's Row, 29 Hanbury Street, Berner Street, Mitre Square, and Miller's Court, and that George Yard Buildings was located very near the center of that square. It's notable, as well - at least in my view - that the entrance to Wentworth Model Dwellings in Goulston Street is only 800 feet from the spot where Tabram was killed. I find it interesting (and perhaps significant) that one can map this perimeter and that two sites can found within that it: George Yard, near it's center, and Goulston Street, 800 feet to the west.

Thus, I can envision a scenario in which the killer - Jack the Ripper - kills his first victim (Tabram) - likely after several aborted and/or failed attempts - very near his home, and then learning that a "buffer zone" may be advantageous in the future. Thus, he finds his next victim some 2,600 feet from "home" (Nichols). 1,400 feet for Chapman, 1,800 feet for Stride, 1,900 feet or Eddowes, and 1,100 feet for Kelly. The proximity of Eddowes' apron in Goulston Street may indicate it was left by her killer as he made his way home, somewhere near George Yard which was, as I mentioned, only 800 feet from the spot upon which the apron was found.

It may also follow that the killer learned lessons with respect to method of dispatch, as well. I tend to believe that Killeen was likely incorrect and that the killer did not use two weapons, a "pen" or "clasp" knife for 38 wounds, and a "dagger" used for one, the wound to the "chest-bone" that penetrated the heart. That's never seemed likely to me and I suspect that Killeen may have been misled as the wound may have appeared different from the others as the killer may have gotten the knife stuck in the breastbone and had to pry it loose, thus creating a larger wound, as if from a larger knife.

[Sam Flynn]

I tend to believe that Killeen was likely incorrect and that the killer did not use two weapons, a "pen" or "clasp" knife for 38 wounds, and a "dagger" used for the wound that penetrated the heart.

I'm with you there, Patrick. Two weapons seems rather too complicated, cumbersome and frankly unnecessary. After stabbing the body 38 times with one weapon, why should he not have gone equally haywire with the other, instead of contenting himself with a solitary blow to the chest?

[Sleuth1888]

Thus, I can envision a scenario in which the killer - Jack the Ripper - kills his first victim (Tabram) - likely after several aborted and/or failed attempts - very near his home, and then learning that a "buffer zone" may be advantageous in the future. Thus, he finds his next victim some 2,600 feet from "home" (Nichols). 1,400 feet for Chapman, 1,800 feet for Stride, 1,900 feet or Eddowes, and 1,100 feet for Kelly. The proximity of Eddowes' apron in Goulston Street may indicate it was left by her killer as he made his way home, somewhere near George Yard which was, as I mentioned, only 800 feet from the spot upon which the apron was found.

Perhaps the killer actually lived in George Yard Buildings?

[Patrick S]

Perhaps the killer actually lived in George Yard Buildings?

Perhaps. I'm not willing to propose something so specific. I'm careful to make it clear that I'm offering opinion and not making assertions or offering theories to which I'd like others to subscribe.

[Harry D]

Personally, I feel as if Tabram was likely killed by the same man who killed Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes, Kelly. For me, it's interesting (and perhaps notable) that a (near) square can be drawn in mapping Buck's Row, 29 Hanbury Street, Berner Street, Mitre Square, and Miller's Court, and that George Yard Buildings was located very near the center of that square. It's notable, as well - at least in my view - that the entrance to Wentworth Model Dwellings in Goulston Street is only 800 feet from the spot where Tabram was killed. I find it interesting (and perhaps significant) that one can map this perimeter and that two sites can found within that it: George Yard, near it's center, and Goulston Street, 800 feet to the west. .

Wasn't Klosowski living in the George Yard buildings at the time of the murders?