Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim

[Tom_Wescott]

Hate that 5 character minimum.

I can't even just say Like, i've gotta put an "!".

That's why all my posts end 'Yours truly, Tom Wescott'. So now I have only a one word minimum.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Hunter]

Its the "Yours Truly" part that gets to Mike though.

[Tom_Wescott]

Its the "Yours Truly" part that gets to Mike though.

Yes it does. In private communications he makes me sign off 'Your Bestie'. I'd better be the only one!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Harry D]

From a methodological point of view I've been critical of Tabram as a Ripper victim. I couldn't reconcile how the killer transitioned from frenzied stabbing to throat-slicing and abdominal slashing in the space of a few weeks. However, this is potentially faulty reasoning that supposes the murders must have followed a linear progression. Tabram's was the first in a series of knife-related murders & assaults in Whitechapel that year. Statistically this type of murder was rare in London, let alone a corner of the East End. For all these grisly crimes to be localized in the same area certainly lends credence to the idea that most of them were carried out by the same individual(s).

[Abby Normal]

From a methodological point of view I've been critical of Tabram as a Ripper victim. I couldn't reconcile how the killer transitioned from frenzied stabbing to throat-slicing and abdominal slashing in the space of a few weeks. However, this is potentially faulty reasoning that supposes the murders must have followed a linear progression. Tabram's was the first in a series of knife-related murders & assaults in Whitechapel that year. Statistically this type of murder was rare in London, let alone a corner of the East End. For all these grisly crimes to be localized in the same area certainly lends credence to the idea that most of them were carried out by the same individual(s).

agree. and think-skirt pulled up to expose abdomen.

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Harry

Re "focused in this area", it's worth noting that Tabrams wounds were concentrated around her throat and chest, with comparatively few in the abdomen. Of those few, I believe that the majority were in the upper abdomen. If it was the Ripper who killed her, he seems to have acquired a taste for the lower abdomen, and its contents, pretty quickly thereafter.

[Sam Flynn]

agree. and think-skirt pulled up to expose abdomen.

Think, "prostitutes pull up their own skirts, too". It's part of the job.

[Abby Normal]

Hello Harry

Re "focused in this area", it's worth noting that Tabrams wounds were concentrated around her throat and chest, with comparatively few in the abdomen. Of those few, I believe that the majority were in the upper abdomen. If it was the Ripper who killed her, he seems to have acquired a taste for the lower abdomen, and its contents, pretty quickly thereafter.

This is true Sam, but as mentioned earlier, her skirt was pulled up to expose the abdomen-like most of the others.

and yes he did learn pretty quickly thereafter-as many serial killers do.

[Abby Normal]

Think, "prostitutes pull up their own skirts, too". It's part of the job.

yeah but not while lying down dead

[Sam Flynn]

yeah but not while lying down dead

Before. Abby. Lifting her skirts in preparation for what she thought was just another transaction. Perhaps, in doing so, she even presented him with an opportunity to catch her off guard. Either way, her lifted skirts weren't going to be of much use to him, as the vast majority of the wounds were inflicted above the midriff.

[Abby Normal]

Before. Abby. Lifting her skirts in preparation for what she thought was just another transaction. Perhaps, in doing so, she even presented him with an opportunity to catch her off guard. Either way, her lifted skirts weren't going to be of much use to him, as the vast majority of the wounds were inflicted above the midriff.

Hi Sam
Think this through Sam. if she had lifted her skirt for intercourse while standing, like usual, she would have let go during an attack and the skirt would have fallen back down. and stayed down as she went to the ground.

The most likely explanation is that at some point the killer lifted her skirt while she was already lying down, which shows an inclination with focus on and exposing of that part of the body(knife wounds or not)-which the ripper obviously had.

and the fact that most of the other ripper victims also ACTUALLY were found with their skirts pushed up and its rather obvious, to me any way, that the ripper was lifting up the skirts of his victims, tabram included.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam
Think this through Sam. if she had lifted her skirt for intercourse while standing, like usual

Well, they were on the landing of a stairwell, so perhaps they were planning on something rather more horizontal than a "tuppeny-upright" against an outside wall.

The most likely explanation is that at some point the killer lifted her skirt.

Again, why, when the vast majority of the wounds were inflicted above the "belt-line"? My guess is that he showered her neck, thorax and stomach with stabs, then had one or two digs to her already-exposed abdomen before getting out of there. (And, I might add, the only real "guess" I've made there is that her abdomen was already exposed; the rest is entirely factual.)

[Abby Normal]

Well, they were on the landing of a stairwell, so perhaps they were planning on something rather more horizontal than a "tuppeny-upright" against an outside wall.
Again, why, when the vast majority of the wounds were inflicted above the "belt-line"? My guess is that he showered her neck, thorax and stomach with stabs, then had one or two digs to her already-exposed abdomen before getting out of there. (And, I might add, the only real "guess" I've made there is that her abdomen was already exposed; the rest is entirely factual.)

Hi sam

Well, they were on the landing of a stairwell, so perhaps they were planning on something rather more horizontal than a "tuppeny-upright" against an outside wall.

yes of course-perhaps they were lying down to begin with-certainly a possibility. point taken.

ive also often thought that the ripper may have come upon her already passed out-many serial killers first kill is one of complete unexpectedness, unplanned and opportunity. Plus one of the witnesses did say people often passed out in the landing.

Again, why, when the vast majority of the wounds were inflicted above the "belt-line"? My guess is that he showered her neck, thorax and stomach with stabs, then had one or two digs to her already-exposed abdomen before getting out of there. (And, I might add, the only real "guess" I've made there is that her abdomen was already exposed; the rest is entirely factual

well because when serial killers first start they are still learning how to kill and achieve there full fantasy. I understand your guess and its certainly possible, but with all the other evidence combined-victimology, time of night, location, proximity in time to the series--I just see this as the rippers work, which included hiking up his victims skirt to expose the privates and abdomen.

[Jon Guy]

My guess is that he showered her neck, thorax and stomach with stabs, then had one or two digs to her already-exposed abdomen before getting out of there.

If we swap the word stabs for incisions, Sam, it`s a typical Ripper attack, and both Nichols and McKenzie had one or two digs to their lower abdomen, like Martha.

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Jon

If we swap the word stabs for incisions, Sam, it`s a typical Ripper attack, and both Nichols and McKenzie had one or two digs to their lower abdomen, like Martha.

But the Ripper's victims typically didn't have multiple wounds to their throats or chests - I'm not counting cut throats, because Tabram's throat was conspicuously not cut. That, in itself, is rather unusual; surely, if you're going to use a sharp knife on someone's throat, the most effective way of using it would be to cut the throat, not stick it multiple times. Plus, of course, it's probable that the wound which actually killed Tabram was the stab to the heart, and that the throat wounds were inflicted afterwards, in an almost complete reversal of the Ripper's approach.