Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim

[Sam Flynn]

You agree that Martha could have still been alive after the 38 stabs with the pen knife?

Barely, if at all. Certainly beyond recovery, given that he seems to have attacked "all the vital parts", to coin a phrase

Then we have the long bladed knife wound to the heart, killing her.

Possibly but, like I said earlier, after 38 frenzied stabs in quick succession, why should he have confined himself to a single blow with a second weapon? Why not 37 more?

[DJA]

He might have taken up lodgings in Thrawl Street in 1888, but that doesn't contradict what I said, namely that Kidney was still resident in Devonshire Street in 1889. As Tom's article says:

"In June of 1889, Kidney was still living at 36 Devonshire Street, the last address he had shared with Liz."

There was evidently an association between Michael Kidney and that location, which was a very short walk away from Berner Street itself.

Tom is wrong.

38 Dorset Street.

[Sam Flynn]

Tom is wrong.

38 Dorset Street.

Can we be sure about that? (Not saying you're wrong, just asking for a source.)

At any rate, it is a fact that Stride and Kidney had lived together in Devonshire Street between 1885 and 1887, and both would have been very familiar with the neighbourhood. And not just Kidney, either. That's the only salient point here; namely, that the area around Berner Street (Devonshire St, Batty St, Greenfield St) was home to a number of Ripper suspects.

Given your interest in connections, you might like to pursue this avenue of enquiry, as it would appear to be a little more promising than trying to shoe-horn all the victims into Dorset Street.

[Jon Guy]

Barely, if at all. Certainly beyond recovery, given that he seems to have attacked "all the vital parts", to coin a phrase
Possibly but, like I said earlier, after 38 frenzied stabs in quick succession, why should he have confined himself to a single blow with a second weapon? Why not 37 more?

Therefore, she may still be breathing or moaning after the guy has gone berserk on her with his pen knife, so he takes out the long bladed knife and despatches her with one blow into the heart.

Why not 37 more?
Because she is now dead, or he`s knackered and spent, or, like the Ripper, he knew not to hang around too long.

[Harry D]

She is definitely the most likely non-canonical victim. The type of victim, the proximity in location, the proximity to the date of the Nichols murder, the relative rarity of murders back then, the ferocity of the attack (albeit in different MO), and the fact that this murder fits into the progression of a fledgling killer, all make her a likely victim.

More so than Alice McKenzie? Sure there's the issue of the time-lapse and the de-escalation but even still it has more of the signature traits than Tabram does. When you look at it, there's nothing particularly "Ripper-esque" about Tabram's murder other than the victimology and the geography. The multiple stab wounds reveal evidence of rage, the like of which is not seen again until... Eddowes, with the facial mutilations? Assault and murder are occupational hazards for low-class prostitutes. Did Tabram fall foul of an incipient serial killer, or was it a one-off murder from a punter with a short-fuse?

[Sam Flynn]

Therefore, she may still be breathing or moaning after the guy has gone berserk on her with his pen knife, so he takes out the long bladed knife and despatches her with one blow into the heart.

Jack the Matador?

[DJA]

Can we be sure about that? (Not saying you're wrong, just asking for a source.)

At any rate, it is a fact that Stride and Kidney had lived together in Devonshire Street between 1885 and 1887, and both would have been very familiar with the neighbourhood. And not just Kidney, either. That's the only salient point here; namely, that the area around Berner Street (Devonshire St, Batty St, Greenfield St) was home to a number of Ripper suspects.

Given your interest in connections, you might like to pursue this avenue of enquiry, as it would appear to be a little more promising than trying to shoe-horn all the victims into Dorset Street.

Stride's inquest.

Anyone find this particular Devonshire Street on a map?
I know Berner Street and Batty Street.

Kidney and Stride are reported to also have resided at 33 Dorset Street,next to the Blue Coat Boy pub.

[Jon Guy]

Jack the Matador?

Almost, same sort of low life, but I think the killer just wanted to make sure Martha was dead when he left her.

[Joshua Rogan]

Stride's inquest.

Anyone find this particular Devonshire Street on a map?
I know Berner Street and Batty Street.

Kidney and Stride are reported to also have resided at 33 Dorset Street,next to the Blue Coat Boy pub.

I'm struggling to find a Devonshire St in the area too. There's the one near to where Lechmere lived, but that's a fair distance away....
Is there a more local one Sam?

[DJA]

Could be Deancross Street these days.

Nope that used to be Dean Street.

Bancroft Road used to be,however too far away

[MrBarnett]

Hi,

It was east of Cannon Street Road, next to Star Street.

Gary

[Jon Guy]

I'm struggling to find a Devonshire St in the area too. There's the one near to where Lechmere lived, but that's a fair distance away....
Is there a more local one Sam?

From Paul Daniel`s dissertation "Streets of Whitechapel"

Devonshire Street:
A small street leading southwards off Commercial Road several hundred yards east of Berner Street, (a little south of the London Hospital, and almost opposite Sidney Street

It`s not there anymore

[Sam Flynn]

I'm struggling to find a Devonshire St in the area too. There's the one near to where Lechmere lived, but that's a fair distance away....
Is there a more local one Sam?

It no longer exists, Josh. It's now covered by Watney Market, just off Commercial Road. The map extract below shows Watney Market/Devonshire St over to the right, with Henriques/Berner St on the left.

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi,

It was east of Cannon Street Road, next to Star Street.

Gary

Thanks Gary, I remember it now, it's got a railway underneath!

[Joshua Rogan]

From Paul Daniel`s dissertation "Streets of Whitechapel"

Devonshire Street:
A small street leading southwards off Commercial Road several hundred yards east of Berner Street, (a little south of the London Hospital, and almost opposite Sidney Street

It`s not there anymore

Cheers Jon. Just out of interest, is that the Sidney Street of seige fame do you know?