Probibility of Martha Tabram Being a JtR Victim

[Tom_Wescott]

G'Day Tom




They did whatever it took legal or not. I'm not sure I blame them, I've got a lot of sympathy for them.

I have a limited amount of sympathy for criminals. It's important not to forget they hurt other people.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[GUT]

G'Day Tom

As a general rule I don't have a lot of sympathy for criminals either, especially in a society with plenty of social security and or social services as most of us have today. But I always try to remember that for many of these East Enders there weren't a lot of options, if they couldn't get work and had no support. I also accept freely that some would say that I'm a softy.

[Paddy]

Social Services

I was just going to say exactly the same as GUT, We have a choice nowdays. In that time they put little hungry kids away for stealing food.

If you had no family or addiction or mental problems you were not going to get much help.
I have two missionerys in my family, one was in St George in the East, the other in South London. I think they did try to help people but for some it was too late.
Even if they tried to commit suicide it was illegal !

Debs thanks for the info re Pearly Poll...

Pat................................

[GUT]

G'Day Pat

I was just going to say exactly the same as GUT, We have a choice nowdays. In that time they put little hungry kids away for stealing food.

Or barely 20 years earlier sent them to Australia.

If you had no family or addiction or mental problems you were not going to get much help.

I'm not too sure that you got much help if you had an addiction. And "mental problems" when you read on Asylums, I'm not convinced you were any better off than on the streets.

I think they did try to help people but for some it was too late.

I'd amend that slightly and say I think they did try to help people but for some it was too little too late.

Not that they didn't try but they were under resourced and by the time they got help they were too far down the path.

Even if they tried to commit suicide it was illegal !

And that is why you will almost always find a finding of "suicide whilst of unsound mind".

A suicide risked their entire estate being forfeit to the crown.

[Tom_Wescott]

As Debs mentioned above, Pearly Poll was checked into the infirmary for 'alcoholism' at one time. I'm curious to know what their treatment regime was.

Also, I should point out that all these welfare systems and addiction treatments you guys refer to today do not keep people away from crime, drugs, and prostitution. There will always be those who choose that lifestyle.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[GUT]

G'Day Tom

Also, I should point out that all these welfare systems and addiction treatments you guys refer to today do not keep people away from crime, drugs, and prostitution. There will always be those who choose that lifestyle.

No argument from me on that.

The point I was trying to make, perhaps poorly, was that in 1888, for some people the options of today did not exist.

[Tom_Wescott]

G'Day Tom



No argument from me on that.

The point I was trying to make, perhaps poorly, was that in 1888, for some people the options of today did not exist.

No, sadly, they did no. And I point out in my book - amidst a lot of bashing of he lodging house keepers - that if not for them many people would have had to sleep rough.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[GUT]

G'Day Tom

I don't know where what I just typed disappeared to but.

I don't see any real difference between a lodging house owner and a modern landlord they are both proving accommodation to some who cannot, or for some reason chooses not to, buy a permanent place of their won.

[Tom_Wescott]

G'Day Tom

I don't know where what I just typed disappeared to but.

I don't see any real difference between a lodging house owner and a modern landlord they are both proving accommodation to some who cannot, or for some reason chooses not to, buy a permanent place of their won.

There's a huge difference, which is what I learned in the course of my research. I had previously thought they were just businessmen. A handful of lodging house keepers in the East End essentially owned the place, including the police. They didn't just provide lodging, they ran the market on everything, including food, gambling, booze, etc. And they could have you smudged out. I think one or more of them had a hand in the Whitechapel murders. Perhaps not as the murderers themselves, but aiding and abetting them. They would have been in a unique position to do this.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[GUT]

G'Day Tom

There's a huge difference, which is what I learned in the course of my research. I had previously thought they were just businessmen. A handful of lodging house keepers in the East End essentially owned the place, including the police. They didn't just provide lodging, they ran the market on everything, including food, gambling, booze, etc.

That I have no argument with, except I doubt that it applied to all lodging house owners. Also many landlords today essentially own areas, including, shops, pubs etc.

And they could have you smudged out.

I presume you mean killed but I've never seen proof that even one was ever charged, let alone convicted of such an offense, but I may stand corrected, and even if so again it doesn't apply to all.

I think one or more of them had a hand in the Whitechapel murders. Perhaps not as the murderers themselves, but aiding and abetting them. They would have been in a unique position to do this.

I'd need some serious evidence, including motive.

[Tom_Wescott]

G'Day Tom



That I have no argument with, except I doubt that it applied to all lodging house owners. Also many landlords today essentially own areas, including, shops, pubs etc.



I presume you mean killed but I've never seen proof that even one was ever charged, let alone convicted of such an offense, but I may stand corrected, and even if so again it doesn't apply to all.



I'd need some serious evidence, including motive.

That's why I wrote a book about it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[GUT]

Which I am dieing to read.

[elleryqueen74]

Although like pretty much everyone else I have no idea if Tabram was a JtR victim or not I am leaning towards that she was not.

Reasons being the differences in the killings themselves and also (this might be lame to some) that the accepted C5 were all killed in and around the weekends (Fri, Sat, Sun) where Tabram was killed on a Tuesday.

[Sunbury]

Which I am dieing to read.

Download the Kindle then
I am reading Tom's book and am totally engrossed in it.

[Sunbury]

There's a huge difference, which is what I learned in the course of my research. I had previously thought they were just businessmen. A handful of lodging house keepers in the East End essentially owned the place, including the police. They didn't just provide lodging, they ran the market on everything, including food, gambling, booze, etc. And they could have you smudged out. I think one or more of them had a hand in the Whitechapel murders. Perhaps not as the murderers themselves, but aiding and abetting them. They would have been in a unique position to do this.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I am reading your book Tom and agree. The Landlords were very much lthe Mafia of their day, their tentacles in every aspect of life in WhiteChapel. Property Owners had far more rights than the unfortunate folk living in their premises. The book "Albion's Fatal Tree" is an excellent look about property laws in the UK in the 18th Century, much of it applied into the 19th century and beyond.

http://www.amazon.com/Albions-Fatal-Tree-Society-Eighteenth-Century/dp/0394730852

The only modern analogy to Landlords in WhiteChapel is the mafia be it Russian, Italian or Martian.