Blood spatter in the Tabram murder

[Observer]

Hi

Look at the evidence

2:00 a.m. 7th August 1888

"PC Thomas Barrett saw a young Grenadier Guardsman in Wentworth Street, the north end of George Yard. Barrett questioned his reason for being there and was told by the Guardsman that he was waiting for a "chum who went off with a girl."

I'd just like to point out that soldiers are not restricted to carrying bayonets when visiting dangerous districts in the early hours of the morning. Personal blades were and still are carried by soldiers in rough areas I'd say.

O

[lynn cates]

life and death

Hello Christer.

"I'm sorry, but you need to read it again. That theory works from the assumption that she stayed alive until the heart blow was delivered. And that, my friend, is EXACTLY what Killeen suggests."

Well, that's how I read it. The last blow finished her.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

blood flow

Hello David. Was not Killeen judging life based upon blood flow from the wounds?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Obs, then why 38 stabs with another weapon ?
The guy must have confused Martha with a whole unfriendly battalion.

[DVV]

Hello David. Was not Killeen judging life based upon blood flow from the wounds?

Cheers.
LC

Sure, Lynn. Indeed, he was known as Timothy "Horatio Caine" Killeen in the district.

[lynn cates]

coup de grâce

Hello (again) David.

"In my opinion, the stab that pierced the chestbone may well have been a sort of coup de grâce"

Agreed. So then she was alive during the 38 stabs?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

She was dying or already dead, Lynn, it makes no difference and nobody can tell more, even not Killeen. All happened within minutes. Perhaps one or two.

[Ben]

I'd just like to point out that soldiers are not restricted to carrying bayonets when visiting dangerous districts in the early hours of the morning.

That's true, Observer, but the type of blades that the soldiers were issued with would have made very poor candidates for Tabram's sternum wounding weapon.

Ben

[lynn cates]

dead/dying

Hello David.

"She was dying or already dead."

Indeed. But there is a big difference in these two categories.

For example, in the latter case an organ donation is legal given proper consent. In the former, perhaps not (unless, of course, you are a Python).

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Indeed. But there is a big difference in these two categories.
LC

Big or not, there is no way to be more precise : she was dying or already dead.

[lynn cates]

Have a heart.

Hello David. But surely a stab wound delivered post mortem would not bleed in the same way as one delivered ante mortem? I am thinking of the heart involvement here.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Oh dear, she'd been stabbed 39 times, there was blood eveywhere and she was found and examined hours later.

[lynn cates]

washed

Hello David. Very well. Are you suggesting she had been washed first?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

It is impossible to tell how many bayonet wounds the young Killeen would've seen in his rural Irish backwater home

Then why bring it up?

For the umpteenth time, Killeen suggested a "dagger".
Whether the question, "could you rule out a bayonet?", came from a Juror or a policeman is not known. The very fact he could not rule it out does not mean he suggested it.

No pretending he was an expert.

Only he knew the profile of the weapon which pierced the breastbone, and its penetrating depth.
All he has to be shown is a contemporary dagger-style bayonet, to conceed or reject it.
Example...


It does not mean it was his preferred choice of weapon.
And, incidently, the military were also issued a "clasp-knife".


Regards, Jon S.

[DVV]

Hello David. Very well. Are you suggesting she had been washed first?

Cheers.
LC

Yeah. Killeen washed the body and bought her a new pair of shoes.
So that she could go to the cemetery on foot.