Ripper Victim?

[Nothing to see]

I agree with everything you say. Until you get to Jack.

It wasn't Jack.

[harry]

Just a few remarks on the likelyhood of soldiers being abroad at midnight or 2am,in 1888..An army camp was not a hotel where one could wander in and out of at any time of day or night.Each soldier had to report in and out of camp,at the guardroom,give his name,and be inspected.He had to be back in barracks by ten pm,reporting in at the guardroom..A bed check at lights out was made by the senior NCO present in each barrack room.This state of affairs was still in effect when I joined the British army in 1945.No exemption was made at holiday times.It was a military offence to be in possession of weapons,other than those issued,and regular kit checks were made to ensure this directive was adhered to.Penalties were severe.
The guards regiments named were commanded by officers who were extremely proud of of their reputations,and they did everything in their power to assist police in civilian matters.The identification parades in the Tabram killing are an example of this.They did not have to do it.The result of all investigations into a soldier complicity in the murder were nil.

[Fisherman]

Chava writes:

" Also I don't think the landing at the George Yard Buildings is big enough to support two assailants and a fairly large victim at the same time."

Where did you get that from, Chava? We know that Elizabeth Mahoney stated this at the inquest:

"She got up about half-past 8 on the following morning, and heard of the occurrence about 10 o'clock the same morning. She and her husband had to pass over the spot where the body of the deceased was found. There was room for them to pass by the place without seeing or stumbling over the body, so it might have been there without their knowing it."

So, the landing would have been large enough for a couple to walk by the dead body of Tabram without any risk of stumbling on it or even noticing it. That, Chava, is not a smallish landing, is it?

The best,
Fisherman

[Sam Flynn]

Your putting the cart before the horse.

One of us certainly is, Jeff - but which one? The evidence supports either conclusion.

I'm suggesting that the raising of the skirt and final slash was the end game

(a) it wasn't a slash, it was a short incision - possibly a cut - a mere three inches long. As "slashes" go, that's not even a trickle (b) It's quite possible, if not probable, that her skirt had been lifted prior to her death. Unlike ALL the Ripper victims, interestingly enough, we know for certain that Tabram had been "on the game" on the night she died.

[Tom_Wescott]

Diemschutz put the horse before the cart and look what it got him. I say Party On, Sam and Jeff!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jeff Leahy]

One of us certainly is, Jeff - but which one? The evidence supports either conclusion.(a) it wasn't a slash, it was a short incision - possibly a cut - a mere three inches long. As "slashes" go, that's not even a trickle (b) It's quite possible, if not probable, that her skirt had been lifted prior to her death. Unlike ALL the Ripper victims, interestingly enough, we know for certain that Tabram had been "on the game" on the night she died.

SEMANTICS And we dont know she was on the game we only have Pearli Polls reference for that and ask Glenn what he thinks of that?

Though I agree she probably was, as she was probably picked up by Jack.

I'm interested however how you conclude her skirt was lifted while she was still alive?

Yours Jeff

[Chava]

At that time the body was prone, Fish, and wouldn't have taken up nearly as much room as two men struggling with an upright woman. It's true, that maybe she maligned her trick, and he went looking for his pal, and the two of them went to sort her out and the whole thing got out of hand. But 39 stabs is a long way beyond 'out of hand'.

[Fisherman]

Plus, Chava, if this suggestion of yours is true - why did one of them just use his weapon once (or twice)?

On the topic of the space afforded by the landing: A woman lying down takes up more space than one standing up, Chava. The writing on the wall is there, and it tells us that the landings were quite spacious. The Bennett photo reinforces that wiew.

The best,
Fisherman

[Sam Flynn]

SEMANTICS

... I like any kind of "antics", Jeff (Besides - a three inch cut is hardly a "slash".)

I'm interested however how you conclude her skirt was lifted while she was still alive?

I don't conclude it - I recognise it as a strong probability. Tabram was a prostitute, she was known to have been soliciting that night, therefore it follows that there's a reasonable chance that her skirt was lifted whilst she was still breathing... it's what prostitutes do, or have done to them.

[Tom_Wescott]

Glad to know you're not an anti-Semant, Sam.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jeff Leahy]

... I like any kind of "antics", Jeff (Besides - a three inch cut is hardly a "slash".)I don't conclude it - I recognise it as a strong probability. Tabram was a prostitute, she was known to have been soliciting that night, therefore it follows that there's a reasonable chance that her skirt was lifted whilst she was still breathing... it's what prostitutes do, or have done to them.

Not this Gal Sam. Jack had only one thing in mind and it were not sex as we would understand it.

Good night all

Pirate

[Sam Flynn]

Jack had only one thing in mind and it were not sex as we would understand it.

... who said her assailant - whether Jack or not - had to "follow through"?

[Jeff Leahy]

... who said her assailant - whether Jack or not - had to "follow through"?

From my piont of view it would be 'whether or not directed by GOD'

But I dont think your looking at sane murders

Pirate

[Sam Flynn]

From my piont of view it would be 'whether or not directed by GOD'

But I dont think your looking at sane murders

Sane or insane, it doesn't alter the fact that prostitutes regularly have to lift their skirts as part of their job, Jeff. Even assuming Tabram's killer was insane, it's worth bearing in mind that Jack the Ripper did not have a monopoly on insanity.

[Jeff Leahy]

Sane or insane, it doesn't alter the fact that prostitutes regularly have to lift their skirts as part of their job, Jeff. Even assuming Tabram's killer was insane, it's worth bearing in mind that Jack the Ripper did not have a monopoly on insanity.

Sam I'm not getting your train of thought? Are you suggesting Martha lifted her skirt?

I dont buy that...she was strangled, lowered to floor and stabbed, in a frenzy.

Attacker stopped. Regained composier, lifted skirt (himself) and made his first slash..

Its a simple stage of events to follow

Pirate