Ripper Victim?

[Sam Flynn]

Exactly Sam. "Stage in his career".

I was being ironic, Jeff.

Jioning the dots is easy from the 'one' position.

...but puncturing the neck multiple times is rather different from slicing it open, not to mention terribly inefficient.

[Shelley]

Great. Your trying to follow a train of thought (which is admittedly difficult) and up pops Wescott again. Trying to stir up trouble like some school yard idiot. Crawl back under whatever rock you came from..

Shelley, I sought of got your meaning but your posting wasn't clear at times. This is not a critisism. God knows my spelling is bad enough.

If you could take a deep breath. Aviod rising to confrontational debate. And repeat your point with more clarity it would be appreciated.

I am now confused. are you saying Martha is possibly a JtR victim, and why?

or that you are Not saying that?

Pirate

PS. Yes I understood your point that victims are not necessarily murder victims. Both Millwood and Wilson died some time after their attack. You are correct.

You must remember that people post here from all over the world and there are more than just language difficulties at times. xx

Pirate,

No never have i ever said i was inclined to think that Tabram was a Ripper Victim.
Oh and it is hardly to be misconstrued the meaning of the sentence containing ' I have yet to find a live victim with a killing due to extracted organs '. Not even by a exceptional standard of reading from a 2 year old.
I admit i read over & have to, over again, to get a grasp of what some posters put down, but i don't make a whole shabang of it and drag it out!!! In fact i recall it back in history with another poster as they were not that clear themselves, some misunderstandings ' Without stooping to name calling ' and i have a very good handle on understanding the true meaning of some simplistic words, such as DUE for a start!
Oh, and don't worry i know what Tom Wescott was doing with his first post to me concerning the Queen of what? Oh and another thing i recall from the stupidity of Queen of what? Is that she picks at my ' Assumption ' or ' Presumption ' and she herself in the same post or line of posting about the subject, makes an ' assumption ' or ' presumption ' herself! Ha ha That did make me giggle. Stupidity reigns as Queen!

[Jeff Leahy]

I was being ironic, Jeff...

bugger i forgot you are Welsh

.but puncturing the neck multiple times is rather different from slicing it open, not to mention terribly inefficient.

Sam, I've followed your train of thought on a number of threads. And it largely seems to come down to practicality of committing the murders..

On the whole I agree with your observations. But Martha was the first attack (significant attack) There are lots of things that jack could have learned if he was the killer.

I think that that learning curve could have changed his MO SIGNIFICANTLY.

If Martha struggled and he got covered in blood, which caused problems then there is a reason to change MO in the next attack. As Ally has pointed out (and you know how I love referencing her) if it doesnt work then it needs to change...

Jack learned and moved on..

I think that there's a lesson there somewhere for us all

Pirate

[Jeff Leahy]

Pirate,
Oh, and don't worry i know what Tom Wescott was doing with his first post to me concerning the Queen of what? Oh and another thing i recall from the stupidity of Queen of what? Is that she picks at my ' Assumption ' or ' Presumption ' and she herself in the same post or line of posting about the subject, makes an ' assumption ' or ' presumption ' herself! Ha ha That did make me giggle. Stupidity reigns as Queen!

Its wise not to worry about Norders Henchman..he still thinks a 5' 10'' american, dressed as Kernal Sarnders, commited the JtR crimes xx

[Shelley]

Someone's off her meds for sure.

Malcolm,

I agree with you.

Ally,

With the barage of name calling to me, you should try a check-up yourself. Who are you? Queen Mean as you claim, or a Doctor now as you also claim?
Also, where are you coming from in MO do you mean the part of in your posts as MO and Tabram not being ruled out ( as a ripper victim) as in actual Killing having taken place, or changes in MO to be successful towards a kill? Or an MO that changes with Tabram to Nicholls?
Clarity to your self! Zig Hile!

[Shelley]

I was being ironic, Jeff....but puncturing the neck multiple times is rather different from slicing it open, not to mention terribly inefficient.

Exactly Sam,

I for one understood your irony in said comment in previous post.

[Jeff Leahy]

Exactly Sam,

I for one understood your irony in said comment in previous post.

Blimmey your not from wales as well ?

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, I've followed your train of thought on a number of threads. And it largely seems to come down to practicality of committing the murders.

Well, the way I see it, Jeff, mutilation murder is about as "practical" a proposition you can get. And that's not a glib response, by the way.

I think that that learning curve could have changed his MO SIGNIFICANTLY.

It would have to have done.

If Martha struggled and he got covered in blood, which caused problems then there is a reason to change MO in the next attack.

I'm sure not many people would alight on the method of inflicting multiple stab-wounds in the first place. A couple of stabs, perhaps - a cut throat. Plenty of historical precedence for those methods of killing. But thirty-nine stabs, inflicted almost exclusively to the neck, chest and upper abdomen doesn't strike me as someone experimenting with technique - it smacks more of someone going berserk.

[Shelley]

Its wise not to worry about Norders Henchman..he still thinks a 5' 10'' american, dressed as Kernal Sarnders, commited the JtR crimes xx

Hi Pirate,

Well, we may always see eye to eye on everything, but i do like your sense of humour. I am still however wondering, where on earth the actual source came from about Tabram recieving stabs to the neck. I can remeber Sam explaining it oh, back in history on this thread which looked like a set of dots on her neck as well as a dart board on her upper body.
Where is the detail to cover all of the 39 stab woundings, as i have on my notes only covering 21 such wounds to Tabram.

[Shelley]

Blimmey your not from wales as well ?

No Pirate, i'm not from wales, i am English. where are you from?

[Jeff Leahy]

Well, the way I see it, Jeff, mutilation murder is about as "practical" a proposition you can get. And that's not a glib response,

Seriously it is a train of thought that has made me reconsider a number of areas of the JtR murders. Many thanks. Px

PS Well me dad was from Ireland, me mother was from Wales, born in essex, lived in Walthamstow, moved to Kent?

[Shelley]

By the way Pirate, i'm not american either, but i did pick up self-professed Queen and her train of thought about connecting only Victims to Murder. Ah, well Crime and criminology have all types of victims, ones that are not always dead either, including at least 1 of the 17 listed on casebook.

[Jeff Leahy]

By the way Pirate, i'm not american either, but i did pick up self-professed Queen and her train of thought about connecting only Victims to Murder. Ah, well Crime and criminology have all types of victims, ones that are not always dead either, including at least 1 of the 17 listed on casebook.

Well they are probably all dead now. There are actually 18 victims listed on casebook, but I guess none of us really count Fairy Fay.

However I am still confused? Where is this headed?

Pirate

[Malcolm X]

yes this killer went crazy, totally flipped his lid..........i for one dont see this as JTR at all, but you never know, Martha might have said something to him that seriously annoyed him and thus it looks like someone else..

she only has to say something like, ``clear off you weirdo`` and he could've simply let rip in a wild rage... dont forget JTR was almost definitely from the working class or lower working class, so the street thug could've been in him anyway...this isn't Sickert, maybrick or that idiot Tumblety, this is someone much more like W.Bury or J.Barnett

[Shelley]

[QUOTE} Pirate Jack [/QUOTE]

Well they are probably all dead now. There are actually 18 victims listed on casebook, but I guess none of us really count Fairy Fay.

Pirate,
Yes, there are 18 listed as victims, but i discounted Fairy fay that's why i said 17. And yes all dead by now. But where i am confused is where is the source that said Tabram had stabs to the neck? Posters mention it here on this thread, but i haven't the knowledge where they have recieved the information from exactly.