POLL: Ripper Victim or Not?

[Uncle Jack]

As it is the 121st anniversary of her unfortunate murder, I thought I would start a poll - Was Martha killed by the Ripper? 2 choices....

[kensei]

Poor Martha, may she rest in peace. I visited her murder site last September while on vacation, both alone and on Philip's tour. Gunthorpe Street- what a creepy little passageway. Along with Polly Nicholls' site I think it is one of the most sinister. Both my visits there were in daylight, as Phil's tour started there before night had fallen. Shudders to imagine it in the dark.

I voted yes.

[FrankO]

As it is the 121st anniversary of her unfortunate murder, I thought I would start a poll - Was Martha killed by the Ripper? 2 choices....

Hi Uncle,

Had you offered 10 choices - 1 to 10, 1 meaning 'definitely not' and 10'definitely' - I'd have chosen 6. But thanks no less for putting up the pull.

Frank

[babybird67]

i dont think there is enough evidence to say...

yes or no either way for sure.

I think she could have been an early victim. She is one I often change my mind about though, like Liz Stride, so I couldnt say yes or no for sure.

[Celesta]

Yes, I think she may have been, but I'm willing to consider the alternative.

[perrymason]

Hi all,

I think there is only a remote chance that the man that later the same month kills Mary Ann, then Annie within 10 days.... also killed Martha.

There is no "curve" that could have been "learned' from Marthas murder that would naturally translate into the fixed MO and the activities that are displayed in the first 2 Canonicals.

If the murder just looks like a murder, vicious or not .....not like a field session dissection, then my bet is Jack was not the hands on man. So the angry man that stabbed Martha 38 or 39 times, and/or the man the may have stabbed her once with a dagger or bayonet, and the man that may have slit Liz Strides throat while she fell does not appear to be the man who shows such specificity in his first 2 kills.

The real tricky part is sorting out whom among the Canonical "dissection" victims may not have been Jacks work, not whether an angry stabbing is like a cold clinical slice and run.

Best regards all.

[sdreid]

Nooooooo

[perrymason]

Nooooooo

Hi Stan,

If thats refering to my post perhaps it would be wise to remember that we dont have a proven series of a killer,..... so, even if lots of serial killers change willy nilly how and whom they kill, because murder is at the top of their wish list, the guy known as "Jack" may only have killed 2 or 3 women tops.

I think murder was a requirement for 'Jack", not an objective. Thats the way the evidence reads anyway.

Cheers Stan, all the best

[Shelley]

....NO

[Ben]

There is no "curve" that could have been "learned' from Marthas murder that would naturally translate into the fixed MO

The Zodiac demonstrated a far more "fixed" MO, and yet he proved perfectly capable of making a far more drastic alteration, Mike. We ought really to make the same allowances for Jack. It needn't have been a natural learning curve as we envisage it either. It could have been as mundane as "I tried this, but now I'm going to experiment with that", and it can take a matter of minutes if not seconds to inculcate (not weeks and months).

And none of of the murder victims looked anything like a "field session dissection".

Reassuring poll results though, I must say!

Best regards,
Ben

[perrymason]

The Zodiac demonstrated a far more "fixed" MO, and yet he proved perfectly capable of making a far more drastic alteration, Mike. We ought really to make the same allowances for Jack. It needn't have been a natural learning curve as we envisage it either. It could have been as mundane as "I tried this, but now I'm going to experiment with that", and it can take a matter of minutes if not seconds to inculcate (not weeks and months).

And none of of the murder victims looked anything like a "field session dissection".

Reassuring poll results though, I must say!

Best regards,
Ben

Hi Ben,

In Zodiaks case, dont we have him killing with 2 different weapons in his first attributed 2 kills? As I recall he went from stabbing to shooting....and not in just three weeks.

I personally dont see anything in the murder of Martha or Polly that suggests the same man did both acts....but maybe you were referring to the fact he only uses one knife 3 weeks after his "first" kill.... by Pollys murder?

2 weapons, no throat cut, no incisions.

Thats 3 Strikes.

Cheers Ben.

[Ben]

Hi Mike,

In Zodiaks case, dont we have him killing with 2 different weapons in his first attributed 2 kills?

No, his first "attributed" kills involved shooting young couples in cars. The "three weeks" thing is largely irrelevant as any serial killer (and any human being for that matter) is perfectly capable of doing something radically different within a much shorter time frame. Coming up with the idea of slashing instead of stabbing requires a few minutes, tops.

2 weapons, no throat cut, no incisions.

Well, she apparently suffered injuries to the throat and at least one of her wounds resembled an "incision" far more that it did a "stab", but even if all those three things were true of Tabram's murder, that wouldn't come anything close to a good reason to rule her out, given what we've learned from other serial killer investigations.

All the best,
Ben

[Pettifogger]

Perhaps the first...

was Tabram. I certainly don't completely rule it out. Maybe it was a trial run.

[jsantos]

Yes! The modus operandi it`s different, but she is a ripper victim.

[ianincleveland]

To me id say more likely than not that JTR killed her,and decided afterwards ripping was more to his liking than stabbing.Dont forget serial killers often fantasise about the murders theyve done,JTR could have decided that stabbing alone didnt give him the thrills he needed