Back of the Building?

[snoo]

I read somewhere today that recent research has put the site of the attack in back of the building, rather than on a stair landing. I think, being unfamiliar with this information, I scanned for the researcher: it wasn't a name that I recognized but I think it was a female. (I may be in error on this.)

I can't seem to find the reference again. Does this claim sound familiar to anyone?

Thanks.

[George Hutchinson]

Hi Snoo.

It was indeed at the back of the building and it was also on the landing. The staircase opened onto a back landing which faced onto the internal quadrangle with the back of Wentworth Street at the north side and Toynbee Hall's rear at the west. The landing was an open passageway leading to the doors of the rooms. It was not at all inside the building or enclosed, a handrail running along the outer edge.

A photograph of it was finally discovered by our own John Bennett who, when I last spoke to him, was certainly not a woman.

PHILIP

[John Bennett]

Hello, it's me, the very unfemale John Bennett.

Here's that photograph again:


When this shot first appeared, it did highlight the existence of the balconies and several people did suggest that the first floor balcony/landing could have been where Martha Tabram was found.

In an article in the latest Ripperologist, Jane Coram does look into this possibility in more detail. However, despite Jane's inclusion of several obscure press reports that shed more light on the circumstances of Tabram's discovery, there seems to be no suggestion that her body was found in the open.

The article does suggest that there was a corridor/landing inside the building which would have given access to flats (more like rooms) at the front.

Personally, after being originally excited by the possibilty that I had discovered a photograph of Tabram's murder site, I believe that there was indeed an internal access space where her body could have lain.

However, it was certainly nice to get a new shot of GYB.

[John Bennett]

Food for thought-

Here's a couple of plans of 19th century Model Lodging Houses from other parts of London. GYB could well have had a layout not too disimilar from these..




The second one gets my vote.

[Septic Blue]

... despite Jane's inclusion of several obscure press reports that shed more light on the circumstances of Tabram's discovery, there seems to be no suggestion that her body was found in the open.

Nor is there any suggestion to the contrary, John.

... I believe that there was indeed an internal access space where her body could have lain.

The building's depth (front-to-back) was a mere twenty four to twenty five feet. I cannot see the existence of an additional flight of stairs ascending from each half-floor landing, leading to some sort of internal corridor, in such a confined space.

Additionally, Reeves lived in the back, on the top floor. His descent would have included the rear outdoor landings and the internal half-floor landings only. Tabram could not have been found on an internal half-floor landing, because her body was said to have been a mere twelve feet from Hewitt's door.


Colin

[Jane Coram]

Hi All,

As John mentioned the article in Ripperologist 94, (August 2008) I thought I'd just chuck in a few things for the benefit of those that hadn't seen the article. It's part of a series focusing on the murder sites of both canonical and non canonical victims in 1888 and 1889.

Using the source material we have available, (which admittedly isn't much), it seems fairly certain that there was a covered interior passage in addition to that back landing, which was larger and wider than the balcony side. This was at front of the building to give access to the front apartments.

Looking at the plans that John has put up, that does seem to be the general way they were laid out.

Various newspaper reports, do give the impression that the interior passage was more likely to be the murder spot than the outside one, simply by virtue of the fact that the descriptions seem to describe an inside passage. I haven't come across any that say it was an outside one as such.

Here are just a few of the reports we could find.

Inquest testimony from Mrs Mahoney indicates that at least in certain parts the stairwell was quite wide:

I did not know of the body of the deceased having been found on the stairs till about ten o’clock on Tuesday morning. Questioned, at the instigation of Inspector Reid, she reiterated that at the place where the body was subsequently found, it was quite possible — so wide was the staircase — for her to have passed it without noticing it.

East London Observer 11th August 1888.

It can be seen in John's photo that the exterior balcony landing is very narrow and it seems very unlikely that someone could have passed a body there without noticing it.

The Echo of the 9th August, 1888, describes the place where the body of Martha Tabram was found thus:

. . .the body of a woman — who is not yet identified — was found in the passage of 37, George-yard-buildings,
Whitechapel,

It describes it as a passage rather than an open landing.

The Echo of the 13th August, 1888, gives a little more information, which also seems to suggest that it was a fairly large landing.

There have been many visitors to George-yard-buildings with the rather morbid purpose of seeing the place where the deceased was discovered. Here there is still a large surface of the stone flags crimson stained.

Again, looking at the photograph there doesn't seem to be a large surface of flagstones there for that to be possible.

Of course we can't rely totally on newspaper reports for the truth, but if we piece together those reports, the photographs and the other information we have, then personally I think we get a better than average chance of it being an inside passage rather than an outside one, but we can't be 100% certain.

I think that the photographs that John have found though are quite stunning and they were a great find. They help to give us a much better understanding of the layout of the building and do open up lots of interesting new possibilities. I was partcularly struck by the fact that you could see Reeves apartment there at the top and got a much better feel of what life was like living in the buildings. I'm still trying to work out where Mr and Mrs Hewitt lived. Anyone got any ideas?


Jane

xxxxx

[Jane Coram]

Just an afterthought.

As I had it to hand, here is Hewitt's statement about the location of Martha's body in relation to his 'sleeping place' wherever that was located in the building.

I had trouble trying to sort this out and gave up in the end because whether he lived at the front of the back of the first floor, Martha could still have been 12 ft from his sleeping place. This is true whether she was on the front landing or back balcony landing - so I just got a cuppa and gave up on it. Lol.

Thinking this point ought to be cleared up, our reporter again visited to-day Mr. Francis Hewitt, the superintendent of the dwellings, who, with his wife, occupies a sleeping apartment at nearly right angles with the place where the dead body lay. Mr. Hewitt produced a foot-rule, and measured the distance of his sleeping place from the stone step in question; it was exactly 12 ft. "And we never heard a cry," remarked Mr. Hewitt. Mrs. Hewitt remarked that early in the evening she had heard a single cry of "Murder!" It echoed through the building, but did not emanate from there. "But," explained Mr. and Mrs. Hewitt in a breath, "the district round here is rather rough, and cries of "Murder!" are of frequent, if not nightly, occurrence in the district.

Echo 13th August 1888

Jane

xxxx

[John Bennett]

In recent visits to the LMA, I have tried to find material on the layout of George Yard Buildings, with no luck.

However, last week I found a slum clearance file on St. George's House, next door to GYB which was demolished in January 1973. This is the surveyor's drawing of the layout of St. George's House, made in the mid 1960s.



An unusual arrangement... there are small passages (absent in GYB) coming from the landings which open into often interconnecting rooms. Note 'Charles Booth House' next door, actually GYB. It may be fair to assume that GYB were demolished at the same time as Sunley House now occupies the site of both properties.

I have other stuff on the layout of St. George's House if anyone is interested, i.e, surveys of the conditions and layout.

[John Bennett]

Finally found details of the slum clearance of George Yard Buildings (Charles Booth House) today. All sorts of documents etc, but unfortunately no plans of the building itself. Rats.

Anyway, I can now confirm that George Yard Buildings were indeed demolished in January 1973.

That's all folks!

[dixon9]

some great stuff ladies and gents,could anyone tell me,was there only one way in/out of George Yard Building?
i.e murderer went up to landing where he killed Martha,and had to leave via same stairs/entrance?

thanks for any help