A question in Parliament

[Cap'n Jack]

In early November 1888 the following parliamentary question was put to Matthews in regard to the Whitechapel Murders:

'Dr. HUNTER: Before the right hon. gentleman answers that question I wish to ask whether he has taken into consideration the propriety of extending the offer of a free pardon, which, as I understand, applies to the last murder to the previous murders, specially having regard to the fact that in the first murder, according to the dying testimony of the woman, several persons were concerned in it.'

Dr Hunter obviously referred to Emma Smith, which is highly interesting and provoking, to say the least.

[Natalie Severn]

It is interesting,Ap.He was referring ofcourse to Emma Smith telling the doctor that she had been attacked by three men -quite near where she was lodging.

[Supe]

AP,
Not sure I follow your reasoning here. All along, the newspapers--rightly or wrongly--had lumped together all the 1888 murders and attacks in the area. If notrhing else, that attitude seemed to make the sensational an even greater sensation and it certainly didn't deter newspaper sales. I would imagine Hunter was simply adopting the popular view to score a political point rather than his being privy to any supptresed information. But then who among us would dare to read a politician's mind?
Don.

[Shelley]

I wouldn't have thought that a pardon would have worked even with a gang that had attacked poor Emma, i'm sure that gangs had a type of code amongst themselves, even if one gang member did get caught and was ready for the gallows.

[Sam Flynn]

Would this be William Guyer Hunter, former Surgeon-General and MP for Hackney Central from 1886-1892, AP?

[perrymason]

In early November 1888 the following parliamentary question was put to Matthews in regard to the Whitechapel Murders:

'Dr. HUNTER: Before the right hon. gentleman answers that question I wish to ask whether he has taken into consideration the propriety of extending the offer of a free pardon, which, as I understand, applies to the last murder to the previous murders, specially having regard to the fact that in the first murder, according to the dying testimony of the woman, several persons were concerned in it.'

Dr Hunter obviously referred to Emma Smith, which is highly interesting and provoking, to say the least.

Hi AP,

Seems perfectly natural that in November of 1888 such a request might be made...for the second time that month even. They hadnt extended amnesty back as far as Emma with the proclamation....it was I believe for Marys murder ...so this would be yet another bit of proof that as late as November 1888 the authorities were strongly considering 2 or more men as their "Ripper".

Its my opinion that they believed Wideawake Man represented that possibility with Millers Court....and its likely why they issued the Pardon for Accomplices the next day.

When you have a courtyard that is entered by a 24 foot or so tunnel...its only access way in or out,.. if your a killer it sure would be good to have a whistling accomplice out there... if you were killing a woman in that court at the time, with your back to the only exits to the room.

I think the consideration of the known evidence from the perspective of an Accomplice being used makes more sense than a "scouting sites" killer himself waiting and watching 40 minutes or so in plain view.

Best regards AP, all.

[Shelley]

Well, going over a bit and reading up on Emma Smith again, i would say that she was telling the truth about being attacked by a gang, had she engaged herself with a sadistic customer, i would have thought that she would up the price for such an inconvenience, for hospital/doctor bills and medicine. She just seemed unlucky to be picked on once that a whitechapel gang decided to pick on her again.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Shelley,
The interesting part for me is that the police were adamant that there had been no gang in the vicinity where she said she was attacked.They said there were police officers doing their beat and noone saw or heard a thing,either from her or from anyone attacking her.
She may not have bargained for such a violent attack,paticularly if the customer looked "respectable" which Margaret Hames implied he did.At the inquest she stated there were some rough louts in Limehouse that night and she herself had been punched by one of them who had run away.When asked if she thought the man she last saw Emma with looked like one of these she said she didnt think so.

[sdreid]

There are plenty of team serial killers and anything is possible but I can't think of any of this sort where they weren't both in on the act of the slaying. Can anyone come up with a pair engaging in these types of murders where one only acted as a lookout?

The closest I can think of is Gwendolyn Graham and Catharine Wood who were quite different types of serial murderers. They do however prove that women can be sex killers.

[perrymason]

In early November 1888 the following parliamentary question was put to Matthews in regard to the Whitechapel Murders:

'Dr. HUNTER: Before the right hon. gentleman answers that question I wish to ask whether he has taken into consideration the propriety of extending the offer of a free pardon, which, as I understand, applies to the last murder to the previous murders, specially having regard to the fact that in the first murder, according to the dying testimony of the woman, several persons were concerned in it.'

Dr Hunter obviously referred to Emma Smith, which is highly interesting and provoking, to say the least.

Hi again AP,

I was wondering after considering this further if they felt the Pardon offer extended for the Kelly killing actually bore some fruit for them that we are unaware of. Maybe steered them back to considering a multiple killer or gang again....which was way on the back burner in September.

All the best AP

[Jon Guy]

There are plenty of team serial killers and anything is possible but I can't think of any of this sort where they weren't both in on the act of the slaying.

Hi Stan

Burke and Hare ?

http://www.nls.uk/broadsides/broadside.cfm/id/15228

[Natalie Severn]

There are plenty of team serial killers and anything is possible but I can't think of any of this sort where they weren't both in on the act of the slaying. Can anyone come up with a pair engaging in these types of murders where one only acted as a lookout?

The closest I can think of is Gwendolyn Graham and Catharine Wood who were quite different types of serial murderers. They do however prove that women can be sex killers.

Hi Stan,
I dont believe there were a pair [or three for that matter].I think it quite likely that Emma was attacked by the man she was last seen with in Burdett Road at 12.15 pm.Where they went after she had been seen there is anybody"s guess but it apparently wasnt to any place or along any road where the police would have seen her,like she made out.There were numbers of PC"s on their beat along the route she said she took-----but no one saw her.Why?
Best
Norma

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Natalie,

Enjoyed your Rip article.

You propose the fatal assault took place out in Limehouse. As Mr. Observser said, it's a ways to walk from there back to Spitalfields. And in her condition. Will have to ponder that one.

Photo of a school, now apartments, still standing on Farrance St.

[sdreid]

Burke and Hare ?

Hi Jon,

I thought about Burke and Hare but, as I recall, Hare was more involved in the murders than just a lookout. Burke was the more involved - there's not much question about that.

[sdreid]

I'm pretty much with you on that Norma.