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Alice McKenzie - some details not seen before

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  • Alice McKenzie - some details not seen before

    As it says in the Suspects Section with regard to McKenzie:
    "Little is known of Alice McKenzie's early years and upbringing, except that she was born sometime around 1849 and was said to have been raised in Peterborough."

    Till now this was all I had seen about McKenzie. She, and McCormack, have proved impervious to any research of which I am aware. Even though the Barnett account of Kelly's life has proved frustrating, it did provide some leads to investigate. For McKenzie there was nothing.
    I was therefore very pleased to find the article below, which not only gives some alleged details about McKenzie which I had certainly not seen before, but even some about McCormack himself.
    Let's see where these lead!
    Chris

    Illustrated Police News
    27 July 1889

    The Deceased's Antedecents

    M'Cormack told an interviewer on Thursday that he first knew the deceased woman in London about seven years ago. She had not a friend in this city, but he believed she had a son, probably in America. Before he became acquainted with her she lived with a blind man who played a concertina in the streets for a living. M'Cormack "took up" with her because she was homeless, and appeared to be a hardworking woman. He had often heard her say she was the last of her family, and had often heard her speak of her father, who was a postman in Liverpool. M'Cormack never saw any of her relations. For several years he served in the army, and took part in the Crimean war, after which he was invalided, and received a pension for eighteen months.

    The first thought that struck me was whether there could be any connection between the blind boy, George Dixon, and the blind concertina player with whom McKenzie allegedly lived
    Chris
    Last edited by Chris Scott; 09-09-2008, 10:18 PM.

  • #2
    Just a thought - if McCormack served in the Crimean War (1854-67) then he must have been appreciably older than McKenzie, if she was been about 1848. Even if he enlisted very young (i.e. about 14 years old) he would have been born about 1840.

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    • #3
      Great find, Chris.

      If his being invalided was as a result of the Crimean War - which is the impression the article gives me - then he'd be even older, for he would have served in the army for several years, i.e. more than two years. I suppose he could have been invalided in some other action after the Crimean War, but I feel that they meant he was invalided during the Crimean War.

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      • #4
        The dates for the Crimean war should read 1854 to 1856

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Rob
          Yes, that's how I read it - that he was invalided out during or immediately after the Crimean War
          However, if this was due to injury he may not have been that old
          Chris
          Last edited by Chris Scott; 09-09-2008, 10:51 PM.

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          • #6
            Here is the section in question
            Attached Files

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            • #7
              Just another little something - a view of Castle Alley I'd not seen before
              Attached Files

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              • #8
                Great work, Chris. Clay Pipe is one that's always been of interest to me too, not least because the site of her murder is so accessible to this day and, of course, the facade of the wash house next to the site still stands.

                However, we know that the IPN wasn't to be taken too seriously and the mention of the blind man she lived with did also strike me as possibly - just possibly - being an incorrect reference to George Dixon and thus an indication of the reliability of the piece.

                PHILIP
                Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd.

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                • #9
                  Hi Philip
                  Glad it was of use and I also am interested by McKenzie as she is even more of an enigma than Kelly, if that is possible!
                  I agree that the main research tool with any account like this is a large pinch of salt!
                  However, I will do a bit of digging around and see if anything comes up. Some of the mentions seem so specific - like her father being a postman in Liverpool - that it makes me wonder if there may be some grains of truth in it
                  But of course the Barnett account is an object lesson in not getting hopes up too high
                  Regards
                  Chris

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                  • #10
                    Well we're at the centivigintennial for Alice MacKenzie's slaying on July 17, the other "bracket murder" to go along with Tabram.

                    Ins and outs:

                    Another interrupted slaying like Stride?

                    She was also a victim like Eddowes who was not definitely proven to be a prostitute.

                    I think Kosminski had just been released so wouldn't that fit in tidily?

                    Wasn't this also where the Lodger story came from with the business about G. Wentworth Bell Smith supposedly seen washing his hands in the yard after the killing?

                    Maybe this murder is a little too frequently dismissed as a JtR killing.
                    Last edited by sdreid; 07-15-2009, 05:44 PM.
                    This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                    Stan Reid

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sdreid View Post
                      I think Kosminski had just been released so wouldn't that fit in tidily?
                      As far as I know there's no documentation on Aaron Kozminski around this time. He was in Mile End Old Town Workhouse the following July (1890).

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                      • #12
                        Thanks Chris. I have that in my notes which only means that I read it somewhere, not that it's necessarily true. At present, I don't recall where I saw that. Anyway, Kosminski is a measure down on my suspect list so I'm not really angling for him there.
                        This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                        Stan Reid

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is bizarre - just been looking through this thread and I have no memory of having seen it before, then noticed I'd made a post on it I don't even remember making! I wish I'd remembered this when it came to doing the revisions on TLoJtRTaN, which arrived back with the publisher today.

                          PHILIP
                          Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd.

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                          • #14
                            I include McKenzie as the next to last victim of the Ripper preceding Frances Coles in February 1891 and the next murder after Mary Kelly in November 1888.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sdreid View Post
                              Well we're at the centivigintennial for Alice MacKenzie's slaying on July 17, the other "bracket murder" to go along with Tabram.

                              Ins and outs:

                              Another interrupted slaying like Stride?

                              She was also a victim like Eddowes who was not definitely proven to be a prostitute.

                              I think Kosminski had just been released so wouldn't that fit in tidily?

                              Wasn't this also where the Lodger story came from with the business about G. Wentworth Bell Smith supposedly seen washing his hands in the yard after the killing?

                              Maybe this murder is a little too frequently dismissed as a JtR killing.
                              Well there's also the similarities in terms of her injuries - throat cut, abdominal attack and a stab to to her private area (which we see in Tabram and Nichols.)

                              Comment

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